Not caring is passive neglect, maybe not nice, yes. But sabotage is activly disturbing something with evil intentions. So this is a strong accusation, for which I like to see some more solid evidence, to believe it.
’Tis said: never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence.
But malice learns to wear incompetence as a mask, and organisations weaponsise incompetence.
I doubt that individual GNOME developers mean any malice. There may be no malice intended from any of the GNOME project leaders. But over the last few years I have steadily become convinced that cumulatively their actions and policies are active sabotage towards every last bit of the Linux desktop that isn’t GNOME.
I'm pretty sure GTK supports server-side decorations.. GNOME does not however.
The Xorg Server has been deprecated in RHEL, but exists in both RHEL 8 and RHEL 9 and will be maintained in those distributions for the entirety of their lifespans. It will be removed in some future version of RHEL. X11 support is provided by XWayland.
GTK will use SSD so long as you don’t customise the title bar. I think you can even query it, with effort (gdk_wayland_display_prefers_ssd, c.f. https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/commit/f2adaba237519642...), and thus behave differently depending on compositor preference. (But even that is mildly nerfed from the org_kde_kwin_server_decoration_manager interface, since it only exposes “prefers SSD” and not “supports SSD”—though in practice I suspect there’s no difference in any compositor.)
But guess what? GTK 4 has regressed matters in this space. Fancy that. If I run gtk3-demo, as a tiled window it gets Sway SSD and an app header bar which duplicates the title (fine), but it doesn’t have the window border or shadow (good). When I float the window, it gets border (including top radii) and shadow. This is well-behaved software, not acting quite how I’d prefer it to (I want SSD even floating, even double-title-barring), but still reasonably. But gtk4-demo? It gets border and shadow (drawing outside its designated area even in tiling mode, and I’m not sure why it’s possible for it to do that) regardless of whether it’s floating or not. Progress. They’re forging ahead with ignoring the existence of SSD as far as possible even in GTK.
It’s possible it’s related to more recent changes in Sway. I haven’t updated Sway since March (since I’ve been using the high-DPI XWayland patches and updating is comparatively bothersome). I dunno.
Incidentally, I mostly use tabbed layout, and you’re always going to get server-side decorations out of that, since you’re breaking out of the rectangles mould.
They acknowledge that these are serious bugs but no one is willing to take on gtkfilechooserwidget.c anymore to fix it. So all filechoosers in gtk have been frozen broken since that time.
But GNOME/Redhat employees don't care. They switched to Gtk4 (where these bugs are fixed). All the programs depending on gtk3 can just rot according to them.
It’s funny to hear positive speech of GTK 4, though, because apart from the accessibility stuff (once it’s all finally hooked up) I don’t think I’ve heard a single positive thing about it, but only more discussion of things they’ve gutted and broken for non-GNOME environments (… including font rendering especially in Flatpak or whatever), and my experience from trying out rnote and gtk4-demo under Sway has not impressed me either—just more badly-forced CSD, new slow and poorly-designed animations (most notably focus, but also things like caret blink fading), and traditional menus are super ugly and apparently completely broken by keyboard (gtk4-demo; run the Builder demo; press Alt+F to open the File menu; marvel first at how access keys are no longer underlined until you further press Up/Down, clearly a bug; leave the menu by keyboard, either by activating an item or by pressing Escape; observe that now the keyboard does absolutely nothing of any sort until you click in the window again).
(And it’s easy finding more super obvious usability bugs. Compare the keyboard usability of the colour picker in the Pickers demo between gtk3-demo and gtk4-demo: they both get initial focus wrong, by keeping the Cancel/Select button focused if you clicked them and are reopening, but beyond that gtk3-demo is fine, while the gtk4-demo one has the wrong button as the default action when you press Space or Enter on an already-selected colour: it should obviously activate Select, but actually activates the Custom “+” button and then focuses the Cancel button. That suggests they’re modelling form controls in a somewhat weird way and made a fundamental change to the handling which will be responsible for bugs in a variety of similar places. And I can’t even be bothered filing any of this, but if anyone else wants to, feel free.)
How?
I use XFCE and I do not develope native linux apps, so I lack detail knowledge here - but as far as I understands it, GTK is developed for GNOME. It has even Gnome in the name. So of course they mainly care about - well, GNOME.
So knowing this, I simply would never choose GTk as a plattform for my software, if I would not intend to have it mainly in the GNOME universe.
(I would probably use something like Qt, which is explicitely not advertised as bound to one Desktop, but right now I rather stay with the WEB and avoid all of that).)
I mean, did GTK advertise itself as a universal linux toolkit and promised eternal support at some point? Then there might be a point of them being assholes, but even then it would not be sabotage, if they simply focus on their priorities.
It would be entirely something else, if the company Redhat would do all the changes by purpose to break other stuff to make people switch to Gnome. This would warrant the term sabotage - but the evidence I have seen so far is not convincing.
So maybe it rather was people using GTK because it worked "fairly platform-neutral" and then expected it stays that way? And then got mad, when developement direction changed?
So making demands of something they got for free?
Like I said, it might be free, but I do not intend to be bound to gnome(and I do not like GTK too much) so I will never use it for my apps. And people who did, probably have to switch - or fork it and adopt it to their needs.
Isn't this, what open source is about?
https://web.archive.org/web/20200207101350/https://www.gtk.o...