Europe’s Plan to Beat Silicon Valley at Its Own Game | Hacker News Reader

Europe’s Plan to Beat Silicon Valley at Its Own Game

wired.co.uk

12 pointsimartin2k17 comments

What a long winded article. I learned about how their office looks like, and how inspiring it is, in the age of remote. I learned about the genders of his team that makes investments. I heard about Klarna and Lilium... I'm going to go ahead and call this a marketing piece for his fund, not any prognosis for how things actually go.

As a former CTO for a European startup that started in Eastern Europe, moved to Western Europe and then across the seas to the USA, I think we have a long way to go before we can beat Silicon Valley at its own game, European style. It was only three years ago that European investors had us create a new company in the US so that we can get funded; in Europe, by European investors. It was only three years ago that we scheduled a meeting with a potential big customer and we had to schedule it 3 - 6 months in advance; compared to a quick call to a Fortune500 CEO in the US.

So I'm sorry my Swedish friend, you might have running money over there, but it's not just about being socially equitable and having an inspiring office, it's also about what kind of innovation that money funds, the landscape where companies are working in (how many languages and laws do we have across the board?) and the access to customers that we might have. Good luck selling disruptive tech to 60yr old managers in Berlin.

The best of both worlds is to have us funding and east european r&d. Considering how low taxes are for SE in many countries in the region pay can be high and talent can be attracted. The EU guarantees freedom of movement and as such workers can freely move west to east. The higher take home pay will be very attractive.

> workers can freely move west to east

Can't speak for other eastern europen countries, but I'd not move back to the one I come from even for a bigger salary. I might have more money but I'd still have to live in worse conditions (infrastuture, public services, interactions with the state, etc...).

East EU countries are doing rather well. Lack of infrastructure is good for investment. A bit like gentrifying neighbourhoods where over time things improve and your investments grow with them.

I suspect that for the next several months, Europe will be more focused on surviving the winter than in unicorns.

Even without this, it doesn’t change the fundamental problem. In the USA you have a relatively homogenous market of 330 million people. Europe is split into dozens of different countries/languages/cultures/regulations. This greatly increases the cost and reduces the upside of a startup.

Is it true that in France it is extremely difficult to fire someone?

Are there similar regulatory headaches in other European nations?

I’m curious if any founders there have experienced this / can comment.

I guess it depends on your definition of 'extremely difficult', but I can confirm that in many European countries, you can't 'just' fire someone.

You either have to have firm proof that the person is severely underperforming (building up a dossier over months or years), or firm proof that the company needs to lay off people. When laying off you can't choose who to lay off, but it has to be on a "last in first out" basis (within interchangeable jobs).

The implication being that if you’re an average performer with tenure you’re basically impossible to fire.

There is indeed a lot of red tape but these are the avenues to fire someone:

- Severe underperformance (building of a dossier over months will be necessary for solid proof).

- The employee doesn't come to work anymore without a valid reason

- There is the 'faute grave' reason. It means that the person did something very very bad in the company, for instance sexual assault, or put critical assets in jeopardy, fraud, blatant misbehavior, stuff like that.

Usually there is at least a 8 month probation period (for engineers and most high paying jobs) in which you can fire someone with between 2 days and 2 weeks notice. No need for a reason whatsoever. (This applies to France)

Not "at least", more like "at most". It's 4months + 4months. And you have to "willing-fully" accept the second 4 months (but they can fire you if you don't).

The "faute grave" you are referring to is the "faute lourde", for which the employee voluntarily caused harm to the company. A "faute grave" is more like a big mistake, harassment, misbehavior, etc.

Basically, you can fire anyone you want if you pay for it. But you'll have to pay, and if the employee is not happy with what they receive, they can go to court (which is very long, most of them won't).

Thanks for the corrections! You are of course right, I'm not very up to speed on the different nuances.

If you don't accept the 4 month renewal of the probation period it is usually a firing reason for them... of course YMMV.

What's interesting is that the tech industry in the US has developed an ever worsening pathological fear of making bad hires, almost as if they're in a European environment where it is difficult to fire someone. Even though in the US it is still mostly "at-will" should you actually need to let someone go, the hiring practices are becoming increasingly fossilized and fearful of hiring anyone who isn't perfect on day one, which must be a big drag on those companies who really need additional labor to get things done.

In the relatively small niche of US software developers maybe... in other areas it doesn't matter. Most white collar jobs have otherwise externalized credentialing. Some places actually train workers on the job!

I worked at a French company for a while and witnessed what happens when they wanted to fire a manager. They just brazenly hired his replacement and had them work "along side" the unwanted manager and slowly removed his responsibilities. Everyone knew what was going on, and it was only about 3 months later they were leaving for another company.

It’s a nice idea but it’s just…not going to happen. And only a small set of Europeans want it anyway.

Source: Am American who worked SV for a loooong time that now lives in Europe.

So much fantasy thinking here. The extreme regulatory burden that European countries put on startups guarantees no real garage based startups with vision will get going, just scammy VC backed startups whose sole goal is to reach an exit.

Not to mention the energy train wreck Europe is driving into...

To encourage startups and investment, they could relax employment law around small businesses. Should be possible.

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