Show HN: Nomad, a no fee Airbnb competitor. Any investors here?
nomad-pass.herokuapp.com
nomad-pass.herokuapp.com
Airbnbs biggest problem I see complained about online is the lack of customer service when your host cancels/you find a spy cam/the place looks nothing like in the photos
Im assuming in this case no income equals no paid customer support? Hard pass. People need support when traveling, and lots of it. I think what would attract more consumers next is some sort of marketplace that promises a human response ready to help you within X minutes
Hope you're going to be clear and upfront about this to your users, not hide it in the small print.
Because otherwise you're going to have lots of justifiably pissed off people posting severely negative reviews everywhere the day the paywall goes up.
Bait and switch is never a good look. You might get away with it if you are excruciatingly clear and upfront about it, I still wouldn't encourage it though.
Could you share more of your thinking into costs & profitability?
- Who pays the visitors if the place is locked/unavailable/trashed when the visitors arrive?
- How do (or will) you make money?
?
Regarding the percentage: have you broken down the costs of everything you need to pay for, and still make enough of a profit that it's worth someone's time investing? That would be useful to an investor.
This is probably one of the most common early founder mistakes I saw in my time in SF (from mostly myself) which is that a founder would think that they could magically say they will improve on some aspect of incumbent, and expect others to just believe that they can execute on it.
Example: We'll be like YouTube, but with better recommendations... Uber but with less assaults. Doordash but with less missing items in orders.
The shortcomings of incumbent offerings are often well known. Simply recognizing them and saying your company will solve them is not in itself an innovation, unless you can actually present a non-obvious solution, and one that is also defendable. For example, even if you recognize that Doordash makes a lot of mistakes in orders, and you come up with a solution such as "hire more quality control personnel," it's not anything that Doordash would have a hard time doing themselves if you prove that it works in a way that solves the problem. It has to still be defendable in a way like proprietary technology or know-how that you have. If you don't have something like that, you'd essentially have to convince investors that you will be able to execute against the competitors better which is a tough sell with anything except traction showing that whatever execution/tactics you have are already working in some way.
In short, if you're raising money on just here's my idea, your idea better be something compelling enough to patent. If not, better get your hands dirty and have traction.
Won't that cost more, not less? How will you do that?
In this particular case, airbnb is having issues as people are starting to run away from them. Having a pitch that is 'basically airbnb but we dont charge money' during a macro-event where companies are trying to focus less on growth and more on maximizing cash flow... this is going to be a hard sell. I wish you luck, but the response you will get today may be very different than 2 years ago.
Even with strong insurances, you’ll need to attract the trust both customers and inventory. You’ll need a strong brand name, endorsements, advertisements—or even some gimmick or feature—to differentiate yourself from the pack of other wannabes.
How are you going to undercut them in a way that is appealing to investment?
You know once they’re fully a monopoly they’re gonna jackup those prices.
The market doesn’t care that airbnb charges fees. The market just wants their problems solved by using those fees.
Please be gentle on me, it is only a demo, and I am doing my best. :)
I'm afraid this is just the cold, harsh, reality of the world. If you go out into the market hoping that customers and property owners will cut you some slack, your firm will not develop the great reputation you probably want.
I wish you the best of luck either way though!
Try not to take the criticism personally. I know when you post something like this online it can seem very disheartening, but much of it is good advice.
Based on what everyone is saying I think it's worth rethinking your business model to try and come up with some other features that would differentiate you from Airbnb.
- pay for a domain name. Show an investor you're serious enough that you at least put in $10 of your own money
- when I click on a photo let me use left / right arrow keys to go to the next photo
- let me click on the header photo to start going through photos
- when you show me amenities also show me what amenities aren't included like AirBnB does. I always like how they show the crossed out dryer or whatever so I notice right away before renting something without a feature I need
2. It is version v0,1, built over a weekend, so its still very early days.
3. It is in the works.
4. I plan to show that in v0,2 pre alpha.
Good luck with your project!
From WSJ: Welcome to Your Airbnb, the Cleaning Fees Are $143 and You’ll Still Have to Wash the Linens https://www.wsj.com/articles/airbnb-chores-cleaning-fee-1166... // https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32879111
No sane investor is going to money into something that has no revenue stream whatsoever. Because that's not investing, its charity donation.
They put together a website that offered short-term living quarters and breakfast for those who were unable to book a hotel in the saturated market. The site Airbedandbreakfast.com officially launched on August 11, 2008. The founders had their first customers in the summer of 2008, during the Industrial Design Conference held by Industrial Designers Society of America, where travelers had a hard time finding lodging in the city.
After the founders raised $30,000 by selling cereal named after the two candidates of the 2008 United States presidential election, Barack Obama and John McCain, mostly at the 2008 Democratic National Convention, computer programmer Paul Graham invited the founders to the January 2009 winter training session of his startup incubator, Y Combinator, which provided them with training and $20,000 in funding in exchange for a 6% interest in the company. With the website already built, they used the Y Combinator investment to fly to New York to meet users and promote the site. They returned to San Francisco with a profitable business model to present to West Coast investors. By March 2009, the site had 10,000 users and 2,500 listings.
---
They had the website built and running well before Y Combinator saw them.
> Airbnb didn't even have a demo, they got funding basically on just an idea.
and
> YC saw them nearly two years after. They started in Oct 2007 and got funded by YC in 2009
These statements are in conflict with each other.
All the info about them that one can find shows that they had something working with some paying customers prior to getting funding from outside sources.
> Show HN: Nomad, a no fee Airbnb competitor
Your comment
> I am open to fees
You are giving a lot of mixed messaging there.
It was a request from investors, so I complied. But live version will go straight to listings as it should.
Your premise reminded me of another startup I read about recently, washbnb. Probably just because it's adjacent to your concept, but it's nice to see continued expansion and iterations in the short-term rental market.
One thing I will add, the 'trips' page had a few additional trips planned for 1970's. Not sure what this indicates but thought you may like to know. Here's a screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/5s3ukOx.jpg
We can email/fax proof if necessary to prove it.
Hoping the HN community can come to the rescue :)
Your offering is Airbnb but cheaper. It is possible that it can work (the market seems large enough that there could be room for three competitors), but I would suggest trying to understand why Airbnb charges 17% while still losing money. Are they simply inefficient operators or are there hidden costs that you haven't been thinking about. Also, talking to hosts about what aspects they do not like about Airbnb (other than price) is likely a good idea.
Also, I would suggest making it easy for hosts to list / operate their properties on Airbnb, VRBO and your system (if that is possible - I'm not certain if exclusivity is needed). If you can beat Airbnb at this, then you will automatically create a market for your system and can eventually start eating away at VRBO / Airbnb market share. Basically, commoditize the space and be the lowest cost participant. Just some thoughts.
Funding: Cereal sales; Y Combinator incubator
Amount raised: $30,000 from cereal; $20,000 from Y Combinator
Launched: August 2008
The business model was valid before YC noticed them and they were profitable when they left after the incubator.
When asking for money, the most crucial thing to address is how you’re going to produce a return on that money. So many entrepreneurs miss this very basic point.
Investors are not impressed by shiny demos unless if you also show them how you plan to make a profit.
If your USP is no fees, then I doubt anyone wants to touch this.
> In February 2008, Nathan Blecharczyk, Chesky's former roommate, joined as the Chief Technology Officer and the third co-founder of the new venture, which they named AirBed & Breakfast. They put together a website that offered short-term living quarters and breakfast for those who were unable to book a hotel in the saturated market. The site Airbedandbreakfast.com officially launched on August 11, 2008. The founders had their first customers in the summer of 2008, during the Industrial Design Conference held by Industrial Designers Society of America, where travelers had a hard time finding lodging in the city.
It wasn't until after that that YC noticed them and invested.
I'd actually look pivoting to building a long-term rental platform where everything is done online (listings, appointment booking, credit checks, contract signing, maintenance requests, transferring a tenancy, etc.). That seems easier than directly taking on a tech giant.
The problem of Airbnb squatters who have gained tenant protections from a sufficiently lengthy stay and then refuse to leave... and needing to go through formal eviction proceedings is a real problem.
https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/805/what-are-some-things...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10OS9xmQws4wienCWpGdnf8bU1l7...
TLDR: Their model is “no transaction fee” — with a $2500 month subscription fee. At 3300 subscribers, they would be at 100 million ARR.
Feedback:
- There’s no mention of verbatim differences feature wise of their MVP vs AirBNB.
- AirBNB offers host insurance, no mention of them providing this.
- No mention of guest or host counts on platform or cost to acquire etc; retention numbers; etc.
- No information on founders or business jurisdiction.
* NOTE: See prior posts by user for additional information:
https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=nomadpass
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Anyone additional thoughts on slidedeck, app, etc.? Curious what observations others have.
Some people (like myself) can afford a 2,500 rent but can't seem to be approved for a 2,500 mortgage, due to credit and this "Feature" of Nomad Pass is for people in my shoes.
I would go that very carefully with a lawyer. The contracts and credit checks are a way for the landlord to mitigate risks. You need to identify where the risks are and who is assuming those risks if you not doing contracts or credit checks.
Nomad Pass is an opt in subscription model -- but really another term for a lease, but without credit checks or income requirements, and no legal binding contract.
Make it easier for long termers to stay :)