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Comment by Bakary | Hacker News Reader

As a meat-eater, I definitely respect vegans more because they have a clear ideological reasoning and don't rationalize. Vegetarianism seems really milquetoast in comparison, assuming it's not done for health reasons. It's the dietary equivalent of what an enthusiastic reader of The Economist is to politics: no real plan, just continuing with the status quo without really understanding why.

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I'm a lifelong vegetarian. I agree the ethics of eggs and dairy aren't great. FWIW I primarily eat eggs from chickens I know personally.

I've been a vegetarian since I was a child. My parents are not. I went to public school and had government subsidized school lunch. A no-dairy meal with sufficient calories was simply not an option. It was also generally much harder to maintain a vegetarian diet say 20 years ago than a vegan diet today."Salads don't make friends."

I'm basically just set in my ways now and live with the hypocrisy. Until they perfect the CRISPR bugs that make casein from plants I'll continue to eat cheese made from animal milk.

own a pair of leather boots, purchased new as well. It's not fair to the cow, but they last 5x as long as any comparable shoe made from synthetic material. Do I contradict myself, very well then blah blah blah

https://64.media.tumblr.com/e238fe868189a39c4903ce7b7bb1a7b7...

Such a refreshing comment.

I get it. I'm default vegan but bought some brie to enjoy tonight as a treat, wear leather shoes etc.

People want to be black and white. Sometimes just reducing the harm on yourself and animals and the environment to a large degree is enough, while still being able to enjoy and benefit from them just a bit here and there

>I get it. I'm default vegan but bought some brie to enjoy tonight as a treat, wear leather shoes etc.

You are not vegan.

We can't confuse the idea of seeing the world as less black and white, and outright changing definitions.

You wouldn't say "Oh I'm default teetotaler, but I bought a bottle of gin as a treat for tonight"

If you want to identify as vegan, that's probably because you see the label as having some value. But for it to have value, it must mean something!

Who cares? That person does far more than most to reduce animal harm and environmental impact. They called themselves default vegan, which is a lot like saying "I don't usually drink".

A lot of people doing mostly the right thing is a lot better than the same people thinking it's pointless to try.

Exactly. If you think about that with every breath we take and step we take we are “killing” organisms without even knowing it, the “just do the best we can” approach starts to become the most reasonable one— else it’s easy to get a bit crazy about things.

I just find the rationalization amusing, though I doubt it will matter either way. Since the rate of adoption of this diet is so slow, and the relative proportion of daily meat-eaters keeps growing as countries develop, we'll either face the consequences or find a technical solution long before it has an impact.

What do you see as vegetarian rationalization?

It seems reasonable to me that someone may have no trouble with animal products so long as they don't involve killing or inhumane conditions.

Well, that fact that the dairy industry is very inhumane and involves killing animals.

There isn't really an animal-using industry that involves humane conditions. Most justifications to the contrary are usually in bad faith, such as citing mom and pop farms or whatever as if that were even remotely the bulk of the sourcing. Even the fact of breeding animals specifically for harvest is already terrible, no matter if it's done by a kindly old couple or not. You would never treat a being whose life you value in this way.

> assuming it's not done for health reasons

Do you have more respect for health-conscious cannibals than those that just like the taste?

The reasons never matter; it's what is done that matters.

It's not about the reason, but rather the act of living in an authentic and bold manner and not making up excuses to assuage your guilt. You can respect one trait of the person while not approving of them in general. And sometimes more respect will really just mean less contempt, all else being equal.

So if there are any feelings of guilt, you can't respect them, then you can only respect sociopaths.

No, guilt is fine. Trying to avoid or sidestep the guilt through rationalization decreases respect. Though if we are talking about sociopaths, the base respect is low enough that it doesn't make much of a difference.

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