The Crimean Bridge Is on Fire
twitter.com
twitter.com
There is likely no workable method of supply or reinforcement for RU forces in southern Ukraine this winter.
[0] https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/10/08/himars-strike-destroy...
[1] https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/15786357973598986...
If it was a truck bomb, it would had to have been a suicide bomber, but I have doubts. Observe the small car that was just going past in the opposing lane at the instant of the explosion. It kept going and you can see it driving toward the camera. If it had been next to such a large truck bomb, it would have been blown off the road.
Russians are claiming it was a truck bomb and this is backed up by recently posted footage of the truck disappearing into a ball of doom.
Videos of the explosion(trigger warning: people are dying in these videos):
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/157863228417313177...
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/157863322104184422...
Update: Looks like it might have been a boat
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/157863387784927232...
Also, while some people on the bridges almost certainly died in the explosions, there's no actual gore (or any visible people at all, really) in the videos.
Honestly somewhat surprised there isn't a Russian information blackout on this since it seems to me like a major logistic setback.
If you look frame by frame, it doesn't look like explosion comes from those cars at all.
It looks more like military strike where bridge is hit quite far on the right hand side (or boat, whatever) - the explosion is clearly underneath.
Meaning we won't know without more data.
But it’s hard to be too much more specific without more information about the design of the bridge than I personally have
Bridge must be one of the most open-space environments you can imagine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C630mzkvwk
The situation has changed. With the North route cut, moving an hypothetical tactical nuclear bomb to Crimea or refresh troops is now much more difficult and dangerous. Supporting logistically the current Crimean troops with food or winter clothes is also much more expensive now
Eh, no, unfortunately not. Moving small numbers of small things is still easy. The big impact that this attack had is that moving lots and lots of very heavy things suddenly gets a lot harder.
Of course that bridge is in a sense both military and civilian infrastructure, so it might just be, that we reached a moment where the points mentioned above no longer outweighed the military/logistcal disadvantage the Ukrainians gained from letting it unharmed.
Of course another possibility would be that they just were not able to attack it successfully before and this was the first attempt that worked. In that case however we might have noticed some of the bodged attempts.
That was the official version of the Ukrainian side.
> A.) breaking it would make the land bridge they are fighting the Russians for much more valuable, therefore the Russians would invest more resources to doing so,
But it would make those Russians fighting there a nightmare to supply (and as we've seen, Russia logistics suck even without obstacles such as a big bodies of water), which will weaken their resistance.
> B.) Breaking it might cut off the escape route for Crimean civilians and therefore turn them against the Ukrainians.
Many already run away when Ukraine started hitting targets in Crimea, so it's safe to assume the rest don't want to evacuate.
> C.) The bridge was expensive and in some far future they would probably like to make use of it themselves.
Ukraine won't have a need for a Crimea - Russia land bridge in the foreseeable future, considering how long it will take for relations to be fully repaired.
In hindsight cutting the east train hub first and then cutting the bridge certainly seems to be the better strategical order of operations than the other way around.
https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1578501990513975296
My immediate impression of the aftermath was that the collapse of the road deck looked very much like the failure of the San Francisco Bay Bridge following the 1989 earthquake, which was fixed in a month (which seems like lightning speed by today's standards).
https://dot.ca.gov/programs/public-affairs/mile-marker/winte...
He's entertaining but it's always a bit unclear what his specific expertise is.
That said - Telenko's logistics and transport takes are valid - anything else, just know where that's coming from.
Russia probably has many thousands of rockets with which they can attack Ukraine's territory, right?
How can the Ukraine hold on to any territory in this situation? Can't Russia just level any area held by Ukrainian forces with rockets?
Maybe someone here on HN has the military expertise to explain this?
Source: lived through something similar 30 years ago, sponsored by Russia.
Here’s one: https://youtu.be/6IwqmezeSuQ
TL;DR: They tried, but they have more targets than ammunition, so failed.
If you wanna use rockets effectively you need damn good intelligence (potential targets) and the ability to hit them (accuracy). And there is evidence the Russians are lacking both to a certain degree.
When you imagine two rocket systems that are pointed at each other there are multiple factors deciding which side wins. Accuracy and range being two of them.
The western HIMARS rocket system used by the Ukrainians is far more accurate than everything Russia has (in sufficient numbers) and the range is (afaik) better than the artillery range of the russian side. Which means the Ukraine can hit them, before they can hit the highly mobile HIMARS (which might already be at a different place once they fired their payload).
That being said one of the major factors in this war has always been that one side is defending. That means Ukrainians have better morale and better intelligence, because the people living in these regions might still supply them with information about Russian troups.
1: A rocket fired from Russia into Ukraine - with which precision can it hit specific coordinates?
2: What is the radius of destruction of such a rocket?
They are also, well, crap - India tested them and decided they won’t be purchasing due to abysmal performance.
https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/09/01/russia-missiles-ru...
What I wonder though is why Russia doesn't use satellites combined with (dumb) rockets against moving troops, even if it is not very efficient. Does that mean they don't have much of a stockpile left?
Maybe that has something to do with it.
Complex internal and external equations are scoping RFs actions, just as they do any other aggressive military power's behavior. US doesn't have to live next to future generations of its leveled victims. Russia's victim, in this case, lives next door and is family. And sure I know of the famous Russian Indian affinity, but there remains the appearance that only brown nations get that treatment. Including from Russians. Something to keep in mind ..
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2022/october/less... https://www.iiss.org/blogs/military-balance/2022/07/russias-...
tl;dr:
- Low accuracy
- Poor performance (duds/failures)
- Limited inventory
For example, Russian has been making extensive usage of s-300 surface to air missiles in ground to ground mode.
While this capability was considered during design, it's an act of desperation. SAM's are mostly propellent with a small warhead. (The point is to catch up quickly with a delicate fast moving object and frag it to shreds).
The s-300 is pretty inaccurate in this role and is mostly useful as a terror weapon. (They are fast and hard to counter).
Additional, they have been repurposing air to ship missiles (kh-22's), which are notoriously inaccurate. The high causality shopping mall incident in late June was a kh-22 likely attempting to hit a nearby factory.
All said, there is no evidence that Russia has any surplus of tactical weapons. Estimates that up to 70% of dedicated LACM weapons have been expended already.
Alternatively perhaps you mean tube artillery and unguided MLRS systems like the Grads?
That is precisely how they battle. Artillery grinds down everything into rubble and infantry moves forward a few kilometers - rinse and repeat.
Ukraine has blunted this tactic by pressuring artillery supply with HIMARS, partisans and drone delivered munitions.
Now the big question is if Russia will use a tactical nuke as an area denial weapon. Russian troops have limited capacity to operate in a radiological environment, and NATO repercussions would be monumental.
Personally I believe a tactical nuke would bring us to the edge of a thermonuclear war.
Here's how I see it playing out;
Russia drops a small dial-a-yield outside Kherson to deter Ukrainian advance.
NATO attacks the Black Sea fleet and starts to provide air cover over Western Ukraine. Poland moves "peace keeping" troops along the Russian/Ukraine border.
Rus/NATO incidents start to occur, triggering an escalatory spiral.
Once you've used a tactical nuke once, it's easier the second and third and fourth time.
NATO article 5 is invoked after food supplies are poisoned from fallout.
Russia's conventional forces are totally depleted, leaving only the strategic air force and nuclear triad left as a response to NATO.
Putin deep inside his nuclear bunker, isolated from outside contact, makes a decision.
...
Warfare has three main objects:
(a) To conquer and destroy the armed power of the enemy;
(b) To take possession of his material and other sources of strength, and
(c) To gain public opinion.
Notice that none of that says "gain and hold terrority". Think about that and compare it to what you're hearing. I'm simplifying, but you are now more informed than most people.
Russia has already used much of their cruise missile stockpiles, or at least the amounts they're willing to use while still reserving some in case of an invasion of Russia by some other state. Further, they're likely limited in how many they can produce because many of them used western components. While they certainly stockpiled some components, how many they have stockpiled is an open question.
> How can the Ukraine hold on to any territory in this situation?
Cruise missiles don't help you hold on to territory. They are used for strategic targets.
> Can't Russia just level any area held by Ukrainian forces with rockets?
If you're referring to unguided rockets, i.e. so-called rocket artillery, those have relatively poor accuracy and don't get you much better than regular artillery barrages. They've also used many of those earlier in the war and Ukraine has captured some as well.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bradyafr/status/15786098485432401...
[1] https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/railway-traffic-over-c...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RRR_(film)
See some of the film's action sequences here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32790428
Putin prefers to think more situationally and kind of saves up his logic for the moment that arrives, previous statements notwithstanding. So any prior statements about Crimea were just as likely due to the burden of needing to reassure specific Russians living there at the time, and there's really no specific red line, even though one might be figured out looking back on all this someday...
Not likely since the mobilization system is saturated and not coping well with the current volume. In fact, the schedule regular mobilization has been delayed for thi reason.
"red line"
Many red lines have been declared and ignored.
And as for straight out war...the war went hot in Feb. Russia has been holding nothing back in its (so far futile) efforts to defeat Ukraine on the battlefield.
And Crimea has been attacked many times already, it's clearly not a red line, nor has Putin expressed any clear "red lines". (Many red lines have been hinted it, many have been blown through without a response.)
A war you say? What would you call what was going on until now then?
/s
The mobilization has barley started and seems to be mismanaged, the industry has not been transformed to war effort, the legal system was not adjusted ( there is a challege to the legality of mobilization, military with contracts were allowed to break those) political system hasn't changed to support war style decision making.
It is not clear if the RF can do all these things without tearing itself apart.
> Total war is a type of warfare that includes any and all civilian-associated resources and infrastructure as legitimate military targets, mobilizes all of the resources of society to fight the war, and gives priority to warfare over non-combatant needs.
It's not clear that Putin would have the backing required to ramp up the war effort that much more.
Bridge is partially reopened for traffic [1]
[1] https://www.rt.com/russia/564303-crimean-bridge-traffic-resu...
The thing that is unacceptable is the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Nothing about Ukraine trying to push the invaders out of it's own country in any means they can is unacceptable. The memes and jokes in media are trying to turn something extremely grim into something a little more lighthearted to release stress. Otherwise people would lose their minds amidst all the tortures, mass murders of civilians and other activities being performed upon Ukrainian civilians by the Russian invaders.
And yes, social media being heavily involved would be something unimaginable 10 years ago, because the proliferation of cell phones has now reached much of the world, giving us direct access to the horrors of war.
And no, the worst war propaganda comes from Russia where they literally advocate for the elimination of Ukrainian civilians among other atrocities.
Instead of humble meta discussion about propaganda, you mark my point of view as propaganda, which in turn reads as propaganda itself.
I would happily quote some top western news media, only if it would not be completely one-sided. There is no democracy anymore there, where you paint one-sided picture and block other sides news sources.
> The memes and jokes in media are trying to turn something extremely grim into something a little more lighthearted to release stress.
I would argue that it is unethical, and mostly about warmongering and not stress release.
> all the tortures, mass murders of civilians and other activities being performed upon Ukrainian civilians by the Russian invaders.
> And no, worst war propaganda comes from Russia where they literally advocate for the elimination of Ukrainian civilians among other atrocities.
Either that or you live in a media bubble so different, that our opinions exactly opposite. Thankfully, it is just an opinion, and not a ground truth.
That kind of argument doesn't work when you're listening to literally state-run media of the enemy. You could compare and contrast RT versus say Voice of America or Radio Free Europe, but not versus independent reporting. RT is by definition "one-sided". They have only one interest, the Russian government interest.
> I would argue that it is unethical, and mostly about warmongering and not stress release.
You call the praising of liberators and freeing of people from the oppression of their murderers and rapists as "warmongering"?
> Either that or you live in a media bubble so different, that our opinions exactly opposite. Thankfully, it is just an opinion, and not a ground truth.
If all you listen to is RT and related outlets, then it's no wonder you have lost the ability for independent thought.
There is no difference at this point whether it is state-run or privately owned, if it behaves like a propaganda machine — it is a propaganda machine. So-called independent reporting completely lost credibility in recent years, particularly in politics, seems like it is not possible to have independent reporting, it is by virtue codependent on the state it is created within.
> media of the enemy
That is one way to put it, but there are other ways, friend.
> all you listen to is RT and related outlets > no wonder you have lost the ability for independent thought
No, I peak pretty broadly, including Spiegel, NY Times, WP, Guardian, aljazeera, and RT and related outlets are nonetheless decent news sources. To ignore it, is to deny realty on the other side of the fog of war.
> mass murders of civilians > praising of liberators > oppression of their murderers and rapists > turn something extremely grim into something a little more lighthearted
This is all unverified due to the fog of war, and to create derivative in the form of lighthearted jokes and memes is to be a propaganda tool on behalf of ruling elites.
They are a part of state propaganda apparatus, with editorial board directly controlled by Putin's administration. To equate that with the likes of der Spiegel and the Guardian is just laughable. No, your "media" and our media are not the same. NYT, der Spiegel, the Guardian et al have had their share of sloppy reporting, but Biden, Truss and Scholz don't get to say what they write about and what tone they use. That's a whole different level.
> This is all unverified due to the fog of war
No it's not, you're just in denial because accepting the truth would place you in the same bracket as Germans in 1945. It's far easier to come up with all kinds of excuses and whataboutisms than actually emotionally process and accept that. Judging by the Germans, many of you will never able to process it and will keep saying that the Fuehrer did nothing wrong and that the atrocities were made up or at least blown out of proportion.
So these pictures from today are faked? https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1579259409120624642
Or are you going to believe that Ukraine is bombing it's apartment buildings of it's own citizens in it's own territory in order to make Russia look bad, like the Russian state media tells you?
This is Russia retaliating for the strike on the Crimean bridge, several days of terrorist attacks where they intentionally strike only apartment buildings killing dozens of civilians.
We can find photos that as well show attack from Ukraine side on civilian infrastructure. And it is not different from an attack on a bridge by Ukraine that also took lives of civilians.
These photos prove only that war is still going on, which I strongly condemn.
They are not proving your words that there is `mass murders of civilians` and that there is `murderers and rapists`
You're labeling one side terrorist and other liberators. Please take into consideration previous 30 years of history in the region and reasons why the whole conflict escalated in the first place. Roles of multiple parties, including Russia, NATO, US, and west.
Otherwise, this labeling and rhetoric is twisted double standards and hypocrisy, that west by the way is soaked through.
If west wanted peace, they would argue for dialogue for peaceful balanced compromises between sides, instead it is propaganda of liberation from oppression, and warmongering, which I have mentioned before.
Instead, west fuel media with Russophobia and fuel conflict with arms and military intelligence, seems like west do not even care whether there would be livable cities and land left after all this artificially created bizarre conflict.
Russia also just like Ukraine uses somewhat twisted rhetoric in media, nonetheless any intelligent unaffiliated observer understands that this conflict is much more than just `liberation from ukraininan neo-nazi` or `liberation from russian oppression`.
I would recommend for anyone to not consume just one side of rhetoric.
At least you have CNN /s