Hacker News Reader

Comment by hsn915 | Hacker News Reader

Really? Since when?

I'm not a US citizen, and I've been to the US a few times. The security measures are about the same level as Japan. The "worst" thing that happened to me lately on an airport was an officer talked to me in a friendly tone but took my passport for inspection and returned it to me about 15 minutes later.

The only thing that can remotely be described as "brutal" is when I entered the US via land (from Canada) the first time around 2008 if I remember correctly. They searched out stuff thoroughly and we had to wait about an hour or so. But they were very polite and professional about it. No "threats" or intimidation of any kind.

View on HN

If the standard is that People don’t disappear for days and/or completely , then yes US systems is civilized and polite.

The slightest of non conforming information or a honest paperwork mistake in your application can be used to permanently reject a visa,

Even if you been living for many many years , you have to leave in very short time (10-60? Days) if your visa is revoked/expired because you lost your job and potentially upend/split your family some of whom would be citizens if they were born here

Or be deported out by ICE right after serving lengthy sentence despite living in the country your whole life , to a home country you don’t know and never even been.

Despite all the bad press and difficulties US has a better system than most other countries, however if you are unlucky US immigration can upend your life.

Does anyone know the rationale for why the laws are currently written this way?

The laws are made to make use of cheap and obedient foreign labor; and dispose of it when no longer needed.

It's not how the law is written, as I understand it. It is how it is implemented and that is up to the President, Director of Homeland Security and ICE. Applications used to be returned or clarified when they had been filled out incorrectly. Now they are perfunctorily denied, and the applicant has to file an appeal. This change was brought about by a change in executive policy. I cannot say for sure whether it was started under Obama or Trump, but I did hear that it caught immigration attorneys off-guard. For example, if there is no middle name, they are not supposed to leave it blank. But if they use the wrong magic word to fill the space or cross it out, the application is now denied.

Which way? That's how every country on earth operates. You are not a citizen of a country just because your parents dragged you there when you were young. In fact, the US is almost the only place on earth that grants birth-right citizenship (maybe Canada and Australia do as well?). All other countries think this is absurd.

Looking up Jus Soli, it's quite widespread in the Americas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

Definitely not a US only thing. Though does appear to be a New world thing.

This is a compeltely different topic now.

You're talking about people who were dragged into the US when they were children by their parents.

We were just talking about whether the US is particularly stringent when it comes to border inspections.

> Or be deported out by ICE right after serving lengthy sentence despite living in the country your whole life

Most countries would consider foreign citizens who serve lengthy prison sentences as unwanted visitors and would like very much to get rid of them as soon as possible.

I don't know of a country that welcomes such a thing. Do you know of one?

I don't think Svalbard (territory) imposes any sort of criminal background scrutiny before settlement.

I'm not sure if Vanuatu allows immigration for people who served time in Vanuatu but my understanding is they commonly "forget" to thoroughly check records when people pay the $130k or whatever it is for their passport-by-investment; Comoros was doing the same thing before they shut down their CIP program.

Most countries even emerging economies with poor human rights records have nowhere close to the insane incarceration rate that the U.S. has, so it is far lesser problem anywhere else.

You're yet again talking about a completely different topic. "Incarceration rate".

Politicians and public discourse sees it as related . Sanctuary city laws are specifically try to address this https://sf.gov/information/sanctuary-city-ordinance

Nobody is saying the fact we have incarceration rate is a different “topic “, we will not reform immigration policy to mitigate that.

These are real problems for real people , it doesn’t matter it is different topic, As a country we fail immigrants who come here

Not a US citizen but had zero problems flying to US last couple of years. Can't even remember the questions at the passport control point... But there was even a humorous, friendly officer there one time. No bag searches. Sometimes the queues have been long tho... Especially arriving in early morn.

I normally get my bags searched at the public "nothing to declare" area entering Japan and Thailand tho at the customs check point, and sometimes leaving.

No questions or searches ever in Malaysia.

No questions or searches ever entering Hong Kong. If you're e-gate enrolled it's not even an officer at the passport checkpoint, you just scan it and go through a double sided gate. If you have a HKID you don't even need to use your passport for entry, you can scan the ID for entry from international which I think is cool.

No questions or searches ever at Turkey.

Flying into Europe they normally have more questions at passport but no searches.

I'm always honest in my ESTA applications tho, maybe that makes difference.

I have never once made it through US customs in under 3 hours (and always with full search, interrogation, and not being cleared until an HSI detective appears). That's not counting the line, I'm talking the search/interrogation/detention phase. I am a US citizen with good passport, clean criminal record, valid and legal reasons for travel, and full compliance with US border related laws.

Sounds like a terrible experience.

That's fascinating. I really want to "Google stalk" you now to figure out what this could be about.

I have no idea but my hunch is maybe you're connected to someone... Social or family... Who is somehow important to them...but you don't know.

Imagine a system which welcomes 99 out of 100 people and brutally kills one. I think if I were to read online about people's experiences, it would be dominated by the 99 telling me that no brutal killings occur.

Since almost every time I enter?

Last time I entered I was (all without being arrested or charged with a crime)

-- forced to strip, cavity searched

-- searched by a dog, who found nothing, and agents lamented nothing was found, but they later wrote in their report that the dog alerted.

-- tossed in a cell

-- fingerprinted / booked (without being arrested/charged). US citizens entering with passport are not supposed to be fingerprinted.

-- detained for 16 hours

-- Had officials drag me in cuffs to two different hospitals 60 miles apart by prisoner transport van. Taken to second hospital after the first doctor wasn't corrupt enough to go along with their insane claims.

-- Had officials lie to doctors suggesting there were drugs up my ass, then being personally billed for medical services I never consented to. I am still in debt for these medical services I refused and were forced on me in custody.

-- After being seen without my consent, without an official arrest, or even a court order, was served ex-post-facto a warrant signed by the judge AFTER the time a which I was searched/"cared for."

-- forced to perform intimate body functions in full view (like 2 feet in front of me) of agents, who then searched the effects

-- Prevented from sleeping, even when doing so presents no interference or risk to anyone.

-- Dumped at the border with no apology

Here's a comment sharing some of the details last time I went through the border:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32416424#32421655

Here's a segment of my warrant based on perjurious testimony of DHS officials:

https://i.imgur.com/ZFPgRFl.png

(and their perjurious testimony WARNING/NSFW explicit text) : https://i.imgur.com/RXNrYmv.png

Doctors noting literally nothing interesting and that I'm asymptomatic of any problems and "stable for jail":

https://i.imgur.com/h6XHm5m.png

And a women sent to the same hospital as me, who was forcefully penetrated in her private orifices at the direction of DHS in circumstances similar to mine:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.azd.985...

These detentions are a regular occurrence for me. I'm a US citizen, clean criminal record, never committed a US border related offense. Yes they have also threatened to deny me entry to US and also threatened to revoke my passport as part of their intimidation.

This doesn't sound normal. Your other comment mentions something critical:

> I got thrown on something like this almost a decade ago when I fought alongside the YPG, a US backed Kurdish militia that fought against literal ISIS. DHS/CBP put me on some fucked up list and now everytime I re-enter the US I get detained, accused of crimes, tossed in holding cell.

So, you're in some kind of a black/gray list possibly caused by involvement in a military conflict. Granted, it sounds absurd they would do this given you were on the US-backed side of the conflict, but still. Your experience is not representative of anything remotely close to what most people go through.

That's a valid point that my personal circumstances are unusual, but after my latest entry I started digging into the court records and saw far more "normal" citizens also experienced similar circumstances to this particular occasion I mentioned at Nogales port of entry (like Ms Cervantes noted above and below, who appears to have been a normal ~18 year old girl). My black/gray listing put me on the express lane into seeing the dark side of border patrol -- but the sad fact is some "unlucky" normal citizens appear to getting this treatment, and once it happens your eyes are revealed to even the normal people this is happening to (and in fact, while I was there CBP officers bragged about putting other innocents through the same thing, including one for having a trans-sexual appendage)

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.azd.985...

I recommend in particular noted pgs 7-9 under the heading "Ashley’s [redacted] Were Probed without a Warrant, Consent or Any Suspicion of Internal Drug Smuggling"

Reply on news.ycombinator.com