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Comment by votepaunchy | Hacker News Reader

Do I understand correctly, you are saying that 5-20% of your employees will quit after having a conversation simply noting that he or she will not be receiving a bonus or raise this year, or similar? That’s really quite tenuous, especially in this economy.

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As a minor anecdote, I'm a FAANG SWE and if I was told I wouldn't be receiving a raise OR bonus this year, I'd absolutely start looking for other work. Most FAANG employees get recruiters reaching out daily, the thought of greener pastures is always on their mind.

Not if the well dries up because all those companies start firing thousands of people.

Don't flatter yourself. We're all getting recruiters reaching out daily. They're mostly ignored because 99.999% of the time it's a lateral move - doing the same thing at a different place. Not interested.

If anything, being a FAANG SWE puts you at a disadvantage for ever having stability. Financially risky startups would love to have you, but a lot of industry verticals simply won't take a look at you because they figure you wouldn't be interested or you're perceived as a flight risk. Thing is, if you plan to retire from this profession those are the kinds of jobs you're going to need.

Unless you think it's flattering to have recruiters reaching out, I don't see when I was flattering myself.

Based on your understanding, if other companies perceived me as being a flight risk because I'd worked in FAANG (?) I probably wouldn't be interested in them either, so it sounds like the system's working as expected.

I think it highly depends on the current economic environment. During the past 10+ years of bull market, suddenly losing your raise or bonus would immediately cause people to start looking for a new job. When a recession is on the horizon, with expected job market tightening, people are more likely to accept it, hold on to whatever job they have, and ride it out.

I believe with the way amazon comp in structured, not getting a bonus or a raise is actually a pay cut for many people, because they have vesting equity that is offset by front loaded cash bonuses.

Even small pay cuts are pretty good at getting people to quit. (uh particularly talented ones that have many options ...)

Bonus can represent 20 to 40 percent of one's total comp at these companies

That was just one example of managing out that is clearly no where near "constructive dismissal". There are lots and lots of levers that management can pull to either reduce or increase attrition, and lots of them are about the employer choosing not to give extra support rather than taking away the basics. The normal attrition rate at an average company is already 10%, so pushing it a bit up isn't particularly difficult, especially at these big tech companies that traditionally have done a lot to try and keep people.

It’s not just that. It’s usually a combination of low bonuses/stock rewards, minimal raises, no promotions, uninteresting/less meaningful work, and less effort put into coaching them. Basically all of the stuff managers should be doing normally.

If someone’s on the receiving end of all of those things they’ll usually leave sooner or later. Who wouldn’t want to?

I suppose if you thought that the comp would return in the near future and the work environment was better than you'd find elsewhere.

Definitely sounds like constructive dismissal to me, but IANAL.

It’s difficult to prove intent, but it’s also difficult to implement policy without a paper trail

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