What's the right age to get a smartphone? | Hacker News Reader

What's the right age to get a smartphone?

bbc.com

I mine at 58 years old (this year). I'm not sure I'm mature enough for it. It's a clunky, yet seductive slab of glass, what with that persistent lure of connectivity to the world, and access to the sum of all human knowledge.

More horsepower than the Cray, without the cooling, raised floor, maintenance or power bills, and yet the NSA doesn't object to me owning one myself... could it be the tracking it affords them?

It came configured to connect almost effortlessly to a cluster of malevolent artificial intelligences that, when combined, put HAL or SkyNet to shame... the FAANG "engagement" Algorithms.

Upon receiving this piece of sexy science fiction, I removed the lures to said "social media", disabled almost all notifications, and got used to it. I get notified almost inaudibly when I get a text, and a ring with a phone call.

I do like the flashlight mode (which sounded silly, but works out quite well) and the camera is better than my Casio QV-10, but not as good as my Nikon D5100, except that its always with me, which makes it the best camera.

This sounds so much like a GPT-3 response....

I probably should have stopped after the first 3 paragraphs, and not gone on about usage. ;-)

> In particular, while there is no overarching evidence showing that owning a phone or using social media is harmful to children's wellbeing in general

I suppose if you don't look for something, it's impossible to find

Define “social media” first. If we’re going for media that have a social component, Minecraft is one.

If you’re only thinking about two or three specific services, you’re probably only imagining the worst examples.

No overarching evidence? Are they for real? I feel like there have been many studies over the years into the negative effects of social media on children. Here is one i just googled: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/dangers-of-social-media-f...

I would imagine that many of us here (being this is HN) are off social media like FB or Twitter and have felt the positive impact this has made.

Anecdotally, my wife was a high school teacher for 15 years and saw the effects of smart phones and social media first hand with her students and how behaviors and issues changed as these became more prevalent.

When we were younger, if you got bullied at school it stayed at school for the most part. Now, kids carry their smart phones, access social media, and the torment continues there. Hell, even if you’re not bullied, you’re still exposed to the facade of success and beauty online and made to feel inadequate.

I cannot understand how there is a question still about negative effects or a statement like that in a BBC article and it makes me question their angle.

I feel that we’ll one day look back on this period of giving children smart phones and social media access like we look back on smoking.

We’re talking about the smartest minds in tech building devices and apps designed to engage and capture as much attention as possible and we’re letting kids feed into this system they are absolutely not equipped for - most adults aren’t either.

There are plenty of ‘dumb’ devices out there for kids that will give parents what they might need to communicate and keep an eye on their kids should they choose to.

A do high school senior photography, so I tend to get tagged when they post photos.

Let me tell you, there’s an opposite side of that coin. I’ve yet to see a girl post photos without tens (or hundreds) of comments on it telling her how pretty she is, worded a billion different ways.

Yes, even with the girls that actually aren’t pretty. It’s nice to see, and I’m sure it makes them feel great.

One thing I'm considering is getting my kid a laptop when they start asking for a smartphone. They'll be able to engage socially for the most part, but it won't have the "with you every moment of every day" problem. And instead of a device that's mainly geared towards consumption, they'll at least have tool that's designed to to empower its user.

And it will run Linux! No kid of mine will grow up thinking proprietary software is normal! The source is yours to command!

If they turn out not to be a programmer, won't using Linux hurt them? Basically every other profession/industry either use windows-only software, or have some kind of policy to use windows (microsoft intune, etc...)

It's not hard to learn the basics of another operating system, and it's something they're going to have to do no matter what. They'll be learning new software their whole lives. And how would using software that respects their privacy and agency hurt them? I don't particularly want to them to be software devs, I want to empower them to use tools to accomplish their goals, and Linux is great for that.

If they can type out any linux command, it should be no problem for them to hit a few buttons in windows.

When I was in school there was a lot of fear about not using Microsoft in public schools (Windows, Office, etc.) because of not preparing students for office jobs. Nowadays most schools use Chromebooks or iPads. And plenty of jobs use Google Suite, Apple, and non-Microsoft platforms too. Maybe they won't be using a GNU/Linux software suite as often, but the world is not all on one platform anymore.

Aim higher! afaik, in academia and research Linux is widely used.

Seriously though, with the trend towards computing in the cloud, I doubt it really matters. Chances are, employees will find some kind of (portable) terminal to the cloud at their desk. SONIC is already offering mind boggling 10Gbps (!) connections to (some) residences in California. Who knows how computer applications will look like in ten, fifteen years.

A better question: why does a child need a smartphone?

I don’t want this to be a “back in my day” old man yells at cloud type of rant, but seriously, why?

What I’ve observed, often, is the child requests a smartphone because someone else at school has one, or the “cool kids” have them. Parents don’t want their children to be outcasts, so, they give in and buy the phone. The parents then have to contend with managing device time and trying to control conversations online. Many give up.

I have not observed anything good yet from giving children smartphones, honestly. The main benefit is parents can track and communicate with their children more easily, well, their are ‘dumb’ devices for that as well which are less harmful to a child's mental health.

Don’t get me wrong. The internet can be a wonderful place. There are some truly awesome ways people can learn and connect thanks to the web, but smartphones and social media for children are not one of those ways in my opinion. All i’ve seen from this combination is anxiety, depression and other negative effects.

Upon turning thirteen, a feature phone with a white list and hours restricted to 7am to 8pm except for family members.

Possibly a feature phone before that age but white listed to family and trusted adults only.

Get off my lawn.

All of their friends are on social media, all you do by taking their phones away is that they're no longer able to talk to their friends and engage in content / share information in the same way as all of their peers do worldwide. Phones and social media definitely have drawbacks like you mention, but the world has clearly made its peace with that. Using a phone is pretty fundamental to how people interact / engage / consume content in the current age, especially in the youth demographics.

It's far better for children to be educated about a tool / told about the benefits and drawbacks than just be outright denied it, when as soon as they are out of college they will be reliant on a phone for practically all of their day to day life. (And no, I'm not taking about the 1% of people who don't use their phones usually or work entirely on their laptops, that's not the mainstream mode of operation)

Children have poor decision making ability, you cant educate them. Teenagers and just under, perhaps, but children no.

You may assume or think your children are special snowflakes where they can be taught this (as children) but their underdeveloped brain has shown through multiple generations that they will continue to make poor decisions.

Your argument rests on "everyone else is doing it", which is not a strong enough reason.

It inhibits them from speaking to their friends, how did you talk to your friends? On the home phone? That doesn't exist anymore and in any case they all text these days, they won't take a call

Let's not confuse children with teenagers here.

I'd agree, but I'm probably older than you (52) and remember the pressure to have cool clothes like Members Only jackets in the 1980s. Smartphones are the modern version. It's easy to stand by as a parent and say "you don't need this, son" but an adult (or even a college student) can buck trends and seem all the cooler for it, but it doesn't work that way in high school or younger.

Its a means of communication though not a nicety, kids don't have home phones and youngsters are averse to speaking on the phone so their friends probably won't answer.

Which is why I wish primary school ( up to age of 11 ) would outright ban Smartphone.

Above that is hard. There no way you could ban smartphone at age 15/16. But then you end up having 15/16+ students having phone while the lower age in the same school from 12-14 not having one.

I seriously think Smartphone does more harm than good for Child. But Tablet, in a controlled environment, are many times better.

I don't think anyone under 120 is responsible enough for a smartphone.

The counterpoint would be to treat it like money: you don’t want to isolate a kid from it for 20 years and throw them in the ocean to learn to swim when they’re ready. Getting used to it and making mistakes while the amounts are small and reparable is a better way to make sure they don’t screw it when they’re “grown up” and supposed to be responsible.

It’s not the same. Having access to a phone can leave you scarred in your most formative years that will affect you for the rest of your life much more reliably than having an extra $10 a week can.

It all comes down to the amount: is it an extra $10 or $1000 you are getting ?

Having a cell phone with limited access, or a cell phone with no supervision and a credit card in it are two completely different propositions. People in these discussions tend to assume the latter, when most parents go for the former and progressively relax the limitations and supervision.

Looking around, kids are getting smartphones primarily to call/be called by their parents, message relatives, and use Google Maps when they're lost. Smaller kids have everything else locked away, and only expand their interaction circle to school and friends before getting access to the wider web.

I don't think at 120, anyone has the energy or patience to battle with a magic-slab.

Jokes, aside, 18+ is fine, as they will have more responsibilities to utilise the magic-slab for something useful(calendar, communication, meeting, information sharing, e-mails, calls, documentation etc..) over entertainment-only(social media death scrolling).

I think as every year passes we get closer to a point where younger and younger kids need a cell phone.

I grew up till about 12 without one, so I can quite distinctly remember a time without. And even then, I didn’t get a smartphone until like 14. “Mobile culture” didn’t really take off till my last 2 years in HS.

A lot of being a kid nowadays involves interacting with others on these devices. But at the same time, we are losing what it mean to be a kid during the rest of human history.

We give kids smartphones early and they miss out on a time without knowing about the constant, everlasting connection to information and social networks/media, but if we give them the phones too late, they are substantially behind their peers socially.

I think the right answer is “when all their friends have them”, and then to encourage them to only use a smart subset of apps (discord, texting, maybe snapchat) and dump the rest.

You had a phone with 12? And a smartphone with 14?

Wow crazy.

I bought my first Smartphone with 23.

I'm really really curious how this will and already affects lots of kids who don't have the skill set to learn by themselves how to handle it correctly.

I'm still waisting too much time with it.

It depends. If your child age 12-16 years shows interest in programming. Purchase all the smartphones for them to learn to code. Or a raspberry pi.

A smartphone to learn how to code? Not sure if sarcastic....

Might not be the most straightforward way, but not so far fetched either. I personally got interesting by writing small programs on a HP48, I’d imagine people getting hooked either from small algorithmic games, or writing shortcuts/automations.

Coding is not allowed.

While I am not a child, I use my smartphone to read through a lot of (e)books on my daily 2h+ commute and it helps me a lot to avoid awkward staring contest with random strangers. I always re-stock books from O'Reilly and No-Starch press my device over weekends for the next week to read.

In summary, my smartphone helps me 10h+ reading while avoiding equal amount of awkward moments with strangers.

sounds like you haven't tried tiktok yet?

I agree, but it's worth noting that scratch can be used on a phone. Wonder Workshop is an example.

Good call, by the time they reach retirement age they'll have a hello world program typed in.

By the time they reach retirement age, Raspberry Pi will be back in stock

At my daughter's school (UK secondary - year 9), they now 'expect' most children to have phones, and will generally ask them to use them if they need to call parents, or to take photos of material useful for homework.

It seems very wrong, but also an easy time-saver for the school when most kids have them anyway.

The answer depends very much on who you are, who benefits from and who is in charge of yours and their life.

The answer may be different for a single mom with three kids and four jobs from mine or yours for a variety of reasons.

Some would even say, you can't introduce customers to sweets early enough...

When you can control yourself. which is probably never.

Never

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