Why was he saying that Crimea belongs to Russia?
The dude is obviously seeped in pro-Russian propaganda now. I dunno why or how he got to this state, but... Elon made this very clear yesterday.
The dude is obviously seeped in pro-Russian propaganda now. I dunno why or how he got to this state, but... Elon made this very clear yesterday.
If Russia wasn’t a threat, I’m 100% sure he would say that the rest of the world should help in reclaiming Crimea. So I don’t think he’s saying that Crimea belongs to Russia at all.
His claims are 100% Kremlin propaganda.
No one else was ever claiming the things he said, aside from Russia. The timing of it was especially egregious, as Ukraine made a *HUGE* advancement over the frontlines this past weekend.
Pro-russian propaganda coming in exactly as Russia's front line collapses? What? The timing and speech pattern here (ie: the Kremlin-style argument of "Khrushchev’s mistake") suggests _direct_ Russian influence.
No one else was saying things like that. No one speaks like that, not here in USA at least.
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If Elon Musk said this when Ukraine was losing, then maybe you'd have a point. But Elon Musk decided to say this when Ukraine was __WINNING__ on the battlefield.
This will go down in history just as Lindbergh's pro-Hitler cowardice did.
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EDIT: Wow. You completely changed your post wholesale with your edit.
Elon Musk isn't "pushing for peace". Elon Musk is pushing for Crimea to be part of Russia. Its the same bit as when Lindbergh publicly stated to not help Poland or France in WW2 in the "name of peace".
Its a clear mistake.
I think he sees it as a compromise that has a chance of being accepted by both parties. He's allowed his opinions. He isn't saying we should give it to them ala Chamberlain.
This is a Russian / Kremlin talking point.
> He isn't saying we should give it to them ala Chamberlain.
No, its worse than that. Elon Musk has adopted the language of the Russian side entirely with that tweet. "Khrushchev’s mistake" is not a Western talking point from any legitimate person. It is exclusively a Russian idea and Russian concept.
It'd be as if some Western official started defending Hitler's Lebensraum. There are words and meanings that specific sides use. Elon used an incredibly wrong one yesterday.
This isn't "Chamberlain" level of mistake. This is closer to Nazi sympathizer or German-American Bund level kind of talking here if you want a WW2 era example.
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Look, dude reads Russian propaganda. He's even admitted it at this point openly. https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3667902-musk-said-russ...
The specific phrasing and use of language was enough of a tipoff from yesterday's tweets. But its one of those things: understanding the Russian side is good and fine and all, but the minute you start spreading their propaganda, yeah... people are going to get pissed, ya know?
> It'd be as if some Western official started defending Hitler's Lebensraum
If you were proposing a compromise Hitler would accept then saying the phrase "and this provides them the 'Lebensraum' he needs to save face..." would be reasonable. Proposing a compromise that would be an out for Putin does require offering him something that Russia wants. Fwiw many libs were talking off-ramps and such early in the war.
For the record, I think they should fight, but I can understand that other people disagree and think a brokered-peace is necessary.
> the minute you start spreading their propaganda, yeah... people are going to get pissed, ya know?
Well, "using their talking points". But that's fair.
At a minimum, wait for Ukraine to suffer a setback before asking them to compromise. Ukraine's victories on the battlefield today, and yesterday, only make Musk's words ever more ridiculous.
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This isn't someone hoping for peace when the Nazis were advancing. This is more akin to someone asking for Peace with Hitler *AFTER* the Normandy landing.
I agree that they shouldn't stop fighting. I simply don't mind that other people feel differently and will even change their minds at times.
> This is more akin to someone asking for Peace with Hitler AFTER the Normandy landing
Most negotiated peace treaties seem to come after one side realizes it will eventually lose so that's how it would have happened.
> At a minimum, wait for Ukraine to suffer a setback before asking them to compromise
I'm not a professional diplomat but that does not seem right, if they did want to negotiate it's generally good to do so from a position of apparent strength.
Which seems like the only moral choice here. Anything else would be rewarding Russia for it's aggression.
But to be honest, the majority of people would not do, and will just continue to throw talking point all over the internet, with projection of perspective under influence of information bubble they live in. What is the point of all this chatter ?
While the referendum might have been illegitimate, it would probably have still been a "join Russia" landslide if conducted properly. Unlike Russia's "referendums" in the past month.
If Russia continues to fight as effectively as they have been, sure.