Comment by maratbn | Hacker News Reader

Comment by maratbn | Hacker News Reader

So far arguments can be made that officer Tipping was not really murdered, or that the woman was not really raped, but it is known for sure from prior cases, including criminal convictions, that there are plenty of rapists and murderers and all sorts of sick individuals in the police, that obviously should not be in the police.

Many articles and discussions on police criminal activity carry a tone of surprise, but in my view nothing here is surprising considering that large numbers of questionable individuals who passed some subjective selection process are armed with guns and placed into what are essentially life-long appointments where lots of money and power is at stake. In my mind it would be surprising had there been no criminal activity within the police under the current system. It would be just as surprising if dictators stayed benevolent and never abused their authority.

I'd say the solution to this problem is to have the public democratically elect police just like politicians, and to also have them be subjected to term limits just like politicians.

So far this system has successfully prevented most people who should not be politicians from becoming politicians or maintaining political power, and I argue that in the same way it would prevent lots of people who should not be in the police from becoming or remaining police officers.

>the solution to this problem is to have the public democratically elect police just like politicians

Doesn't seem to stop people from electing horrible sheriffs time and again.

>So far this system has successfully prevented most people who should not be politicians from becoming politicians

Is your comment satire?

Generally public officials in countries with fair elections are an order of magnitude better than public officials in countries without fair elections. For example, compare Bush II with Ahmadinejad.

> Doesn't seem to stop people from electing horrible sheriffs time and again.

There are some problems with the current election system in the US in that many potential voters don't register to vote to not get summoned for jury duty and similar issues, while lots of police vote in blocks guided by powerful police unions. These problems can be fixed, and overall the US election system is better than in countries like Russia.

> Is your comment satire?

Even US politicians who are massively disliked are way better than their counterparts in countries without fair elections. Furthermore, these massively-disliked politicians get voted out at the end of term if a better politician runs against them. And even if they don't get voted out, they have to leave eventually due to hard term limits.

I'm not saying that democratic elections with term limits for police will keep absolutely all bad people out of police, but what I am saying is that there will be an order of magnitude less bad people in the police, and they will also be an order of magnitude less bad than under the current traditional employment scheme.

Bush II stole his first election from Gore and started a multi-trillion dollar war based on lies that ended up killing hundreds of thousands of civilians.

Calling him a success story is completely insane.

> Generally public officials in countries with fair elections are an order of magnitude better than public officials in countries without fair elections. For example, compare Bush II with Ahmadinejad.

I agree with your general statement, but I think Ahmadinejad is a bad example. Ahmadinejad was voted into office, and a few years later was voted out of office. Ayatollah Khamenei is probably a better example.

Exactly. Sheriffs are just cops who can't be fired without a recall election.

>I'd say the solution to this problem is to have the public democratically elect police just like politicians, and to also have them be subjected to term limits just like politicians.

Are there not corrupt politicians?

> Are there not corrupt politicians?

There are, but there are a lot less of them in countries with fair democratic elections, and those who are corrupt are on average a lot milder than in countries without fair democratic elections. On average we're talking theft vs murder / genocide.

> Are there not corrupt politicians?

There are. And democracy makes politicians seem more legitimate. Democracy in the wrong place can make corruption worse.

Hiring cops should not be a popularity contest (i.e. democratic) in my opinion.

The US has in interesting system where new ideas are first tried on local levels like individual towns / counties / states, which all compete with each other. It would be interesting to see such a reform tried out somewhere small and if it works better than the current status quo.

And since the current status quo involves rape and murder, I argue that even if it sucks it would still be a huge improvement.

> also have [cops] be subjected to term limits just like politicians

Why would we want cops to have less experience on average?

And why would we want American Presidents to have less experience than Russian "Presidents" ??

I hate how much this whole thread is just everyone dripping with sarcasm.

The same reason we elect mayors but not every single single person who works in city call. Or cabinet members under an elected president.

Effective governance and public and administration still require experience. Elections are great for changing leadership who set policy, agenda, and direction and term limits help there. But they can't replace people with experience. We typically do have some elected positions with oversight over police.

This is NOT to say that there isn't a massive need for more accountability with police forces. But term limits ain't it.

Experience doesn't make cops good. A good cop with experience is better at being a good cop, but a bad cop with experience is better at being a bad cop.

Furthermore, I think good cops may be corrupted with time, but bad cops are never redeemed with time. So all else being equal, I expect experienced cops to be more corrupt than novice cops, and more effective at being corrupt.

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