It’s honestly fascinating to me that women think bots are so interesting that they deserve an article like this. I feel like almost all men match with more bots than real women. We live in entirely different worlds.
The male complainers just naturally have more to gripe about than the "meh, it's fine" crowd who usually can't be bothered (or aren't believed in the crowd of complaints).
None of the men I talk to in real life have the experiences I see men complaining about online
This is dismissing all the complaints of men. Not all the complaints men have are baseless. This dismissive mindset of declaring every complaint men have as black pill/extremist/incel is probably why young men are gravitating to more extreme 'red pill' characters like Andrew Tate by the tens of millions. This is what happens when you dismiss any chance for nuanced and balanced conversations where both sides grievances are heard.
Claiming that it's at the same quantitative level as, say, monthly listeners of Beyonce on Spotify, or many other things that it's easy to find real-life claims of without support is a lot to ask of folks. Tens of millions having a hard time dating or tens of millions convinced women are the enemy and are treating them unfairly?
Cause from the outside, it just looks like there are a bunch of people - who over-estimate the universalness of their experience - who have decided somehow that other struggling men are the expert on women's behavior re: dating and jumped to entirely wrong conclusions. This probably isn't just their fault; the last fifteen years of social media tech have really accelerated the ability of people to take advantage of self-reinforcing bubbles to push toxic views.
Dating is hard, it's always been hard for most people, but there wasn't always such an easy way to find others telling you it's actually everyone else being out to get you. Like this zero-sum-game gem from elsewhere in the thread: "It’s hard to have a conversation about it because women don’t fucking care. You know why? It’s not their problem and it never affects them directly. It also means often that the solution involves women changing and that’s sexist, sweaty." - They're the ones doing it wrong - very deep, very insightful, how much deep introspection and reflection did it take them to jump to that conclusion? But hey, I'm not a woman, so you're gonna have to come up with a new reason I'm skeptical.
I guess I'm just lucky that when I was a late-20s virgin the "foreveralone" convo was more ironic and less violent, so I just focused on my own social skills.
And then there are quick downvotes and lazy dismissals so no wonder the non-angry men don't bother to engage that often.
Same. Just from talking to the women in my life it's clear that women experience way more unwanted harassment via online dating apps than I did personally (I met my wife this way), or any men I know did.
Yes, it's harder to men to get attention on dating apps than it is for women. Yes, men on dating apps are targeted by OnlyFans sex workers. If those issues seem insurmountable to you, then my recommendation is to touch grass and go meet people in RealLife™.
Here's a bonus: ask men how many women turned 'crazy' after the first night of sex, and do the same for women.
It's almost as if the different sexes have different expectations and modus operandi.
93% of women prefer to be asked out on a date, while 16% of men prefer to be asked out. So if you're a man who won't ask women out, you're going to miss out on potential dates with a lot of women. No judgment — that may not be a bad strategy if you're the type of man who needs their partner to "wear the pants", so to speak.
> Here's a bonus: ask men how many women turned 'crazy' after the first night of sex, and do the same for women.
1 in 7 women have been injured by an intimate partner, compared to 1 in 25 men.¹ 1 in 10 women have been raped by an intimate partner, with no comparable data available for men because it's so rare.¹ Dating is far risker for women.
¹ https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-...
Lets not even get started on the number of female teachers that have sex with students and walk away with no charges, or very light charges.
both sexes have their own challenges, this dismissal of one set of challenges does nothing to further the conversation.
Yes, now you're getting it: Dating and physical intimacy is an order of magnitude less dangerous for men, in contrast to the parent commenter's implication (and incel talking point) that I was specifically addressing.
Is it any less of an individual tragedy for the men who are affected? Of course not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_males#Myths_regarding_...
Do you have a source for that because I find it shocking only 16% of men prefer to be asked out.
That's because many men have figured out that volume works, and spam everybody. If one answers their spam with annoyance, they're totally amused by sending a really aggressive, rude reply, because you are 0.1% of the "'sup?" messages they sent out that day and don't matter to them. They're irritated that you bothered to reply at all.
Ever trick a phone scammer into talking to you for a long time? When he realizes that you've wasted his time, his reaction is exactly like the 'sup? guys.
I learned that volume works watching my drummer in my old band. He simply aggressively and tactlessly hit on every pretty girl who got anywhere near him. One out of 20 were down. If you're good-looking it might be more like one out of 10, if you're ugly it might be more like one out of 40. But volume works.
However the broader and very real issue of Men lacking the societal support/proper outlets to deal with traumatic experiences is probably one of many reasons why 80% of suicides are males. (Men not expressing their feelings doesn’t mean they don’t have any)
I agree that the various "red pill" subcultures have done a terrific job of sucking the air out of the room RE conversations about men's dating experience. It's a hard conversation to have with any amount of nuance in 2022.
Redpill was a niche subculture no one knew about (and mostly still doesn’t) - just like incels. It was the mainstream media who made RP, incels, and general lack of sexual experiences for men to be the next 9/11.
It’s hard to have a conversation about it because women don’t fucking care. You know why? It’s not their problem and it never affects them directly. It also means often that the solution involves women changing and that’s sexist, sweaty.
In order to solve this - you'd have to change the way people meet and the way our culture values people. We need to value deeper ways to meet people like through hobbies, social groups, etc. where someone can have a more lasting impression than half a second on Tinder. (If you think this mentality doesn't affect people IRL - you are mistaken)
Does this mean that all the work is on women? Nope. It does however mean that there is work women have to do. Thus why it will never happen. We haven't asked women to change much in the last 50 years. The main focus has been on changing men, not women.
Women have problems in online dating too, even equal in severity and scope. Just not the exact same problems.
Show me what in the article says (or implies) that women are "just like men" or "have the exact same problems".