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Comment by alt227 | Hacker News Reader

This is the main thing I hate about google maps. I refuse to do free work for google in return for 'fun'.

This is definitely one of the trickiest ethical questions for me -- and it applies not only to Maps updates, but also writing Amazon reviews, and so forth.

On the one hand it's free work benefiting the corporation... but on the other hand it's genuinely helping sometimes thousands of other people. I benefit massively from reading Amazon reviews, and it feels good to give back. But it is also a contribution that further entrenches Amazon (or Google Maps), it's not like Wikipedia where contributions can be used by anyone.

What do we do when we can help other users, but doing so also supports corporations for free? Although then again, I've never paid a dime for Google Maps and use it daily, it's literally a major part of my life -- so does getting the product for free also play a role?

I appreciate your viewpoint, and in some ways I agree. However I see it mostly from a competitors point of view. If you were to start up a new directory/mapping service, you would need to set up a team of people paid to gather this information for you.

For example if you wanted to put in your new directory whether company A has a car park at their premesis or has disabled access etc, you would need to pay somebody to either go there and perform a survey or call them up and ask them. Googles monopoly enables them to just ask the question to everybody that has ever been there and get the data returned back into the system automatically and free.

I see this as anticompetitive and so I choose not to participate.

Yeah, this makes me think further and it feels like one solution could be legislation that declares companies never own user-supplied content -- that when users submit data like Amazon reviews or Craigslist posts they become public domain. Competitors are free to scrape them however they can.

It's harder for map corrections though, as the user-presented data mixes commercial and user-supplied data. Maybe legislation should require regular data dumps of all user-supplied content much like Wikipedia makes available in XML form? Then no scraping is even required.

Agreed. Overall I see it as a net negative to society if Amazon succeeds so I don't help.

Contributing to Stackoverflow is my one exception.

I also want to hate it, but in reality I recently uploaded my first picture and then get monthly updates on how many hundreds of people have seen it and I have to admit the gamification works :(

On the topic: I think it would be a good idea for OSM if done in a good and non-technical user-friendly way.

This is a pattern that OSM could adopt. OSM data is used by about half of FAANG and countless smaller companies and organizations directly and indirectly (through Mapbox for example), so your contributions are seen by millions if not billions, depending on where you are.

There is no way for OSM to know how many people use your contribution in which way.

Try thinking of it as work done to help other real people.

I found the "Emergency" door of a local hospital hard to find IRL, so I added a photo of it from the driveway POV. Another sort of real person you can help are the web-clueless owners of local small businesses.

I tried to look at it that way, but... it only helps other people until Google decides to drop that particular feature, after which all your work is gone forever.

Instead of supplying a mega corp with some free information to increase their monopoly on directions, maybe you could have just mentioned to the hospital staff that they could do with a new sign pointing to the door?

I think the point of having the online map accurate is so people can plan better ahead of time. We had this exact situation recently when my MIL needed to go to get CT scan in a hospital campus but my wife wanted to plan ahead which of the many entrances she should drop her off at. The actual hospital web site is a labrynth of the type that government bureaucracies excel at.

Most of the the you see actual staff in a big organization, like hospital or government office etc do not have authority to add or remove signage. Most of the time its somebody in admin, or even a totally different department in case of government offices (to keep all locations similar) who is actually responsible. That doesn't mean that one should not give feedback, I do, & at least half of the the time it makes a difference.

there is some aspect there about how web-savvy business owners can be and how easy it is to bring business to them. It'll be great to see that playing field fleshed out in time.

That isn't the main return for me. It is knowing that you have contributed to the community corpus of knowledge that is almost impossible to come otherwise. For instance I had the to visit a data centre that I had previously been to but was under a new owner. The pin had Equinix but not the site code. Once I confirmed it, I submitted the edit for it to become Equinix SY6. It apparently has since been used thousands of times.

I also enjoy adding a food shot or a representative photo of places I have enjoyed as a small reward and enticement for others to do likewise.

Personally I just use it for me. Even if they made it so that nothing is shared, and it bookmarks my edits I'd be happy. I don't want to keep a separate override list.

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