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Comment by Nextgrid | Hacker News Reader

Also from the EU.

Guns can be a fun sportive/recreational tool. They are of course dangerous and deadly when misused, but so can be a lot of other recreational tools.

The main problem is the US’ gun culture and that a lot of people buy them either because of fear-mongering or to make a political statement, with safe use & enjoyment being a secondary concern. Having so many guns out there in the hands of people who are poorly trained at using them safely & harmlessly is the problem.

In a location with a healthy gun culture, or no specific culture associated with them, a gun would be considered as boring as any other dangerous sports equipment, there would be less problems - there would be a lot less guns around but the ones that will remain will be in the hands of passionate users who actually have the skill, training and mental state to enjoy them safely and responsibly.

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> They are of course dangerous and deadly when misused, but so can be a lot of other recreational tools.

Sorry to nitpick, but I strongly disapprove of this sentence because it hides the fact that guns are weapons, and generally speaking most "other recreational tools" are not.

Of course guns are dangerous and deadly, they're guns. If other recreational tools were as readily dangerous and deadly as guns, access to their usage would be a lot more restricted.

Which also implies the "when misused" description is deceptive. What are guns designed to do? Like, when looking at their affordances[0], what was a gun originally made to do? SMBC had a nice take on it[1].

Of course it is true that we're not supposed to kill people, but "misused" here expands to "someone used a thing explicitly designed to be good at killing people, and in the process got someone killed, which means they misused it". Depending on intent that is perhaps "morally" correct, but otherwise it shifts attention away from the part where guns being dangerous and deadly is inherent to what makes them guns.

And don't get me wrong, I fully agree with the rest of what you're saying. I totally understand when people have a fascination for weapons and agree there should be space for passionate, responsible enthusiasts. But that's exactly why I'm a bit hung up on this: to me, a responsible enthusiast would never undersell how dangerous guns are, and part of the cause of a messed up gun culture is not respecting that danger.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordance

[1] https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2011-01-28

EU shooter here for context.

> I totally understand when people have a fascination for weapons and agree there should be space for passionate, responsible enthusiasts.

Well, thank you for letting us live !

Where I live, it's not exactly easy to legally get a hand gun and you can only do so after you proved that you're responsible, sane, and respect the safety rules. It's a process that can take a year, with multiple tests that you have to renew along your life. The behaviour described in this article would lead a shooter to lose his right to detain a handgun (I speak about detention, there is no right to carry guns here).

Long story short, don't fear shooters that are having fun at your local gun range, they wouldn't do anything that stupid and they know damn well the dangers.

People in suburban cities getting guns illegally is a completely different matter though, and the shootings there are completely out of control, including shooting automatics while riding a bike or firing at buildings. And yes, pathetic clowns doing the "celebratory gunfire" thing.

> Long story short, don't fear shooters that are having fun at your local gun range, they wouldn't do anything that stupid and they know damn well the dangers.

And I'm not! Apologies if I came across that way. I'm only nitpicking on the language used when discussing guns here. I want the discussion of guns to be as respectful of (the dangers of) guns as responsible gun owners are with actual guns.

I understand: it's not akin to other recreational activities. It needs extra care and education. I guess in many places the culture comes without the education and it's a bad situation.

>Long story short, don't fear shooters that are having fun at your local gun range, they wouldn't do anything that stupid and they know damn well the dangers.

Lol wut? My entire family is "responsible gun owners" who repeatedly engage in harmful gun culture stuff, keeping guns around young kids, mixing alcohol and drugs with firearms, and NOT STOPPING EACH OTHER FROM DOING THAT

I have no trust in people who say "no no no the responsible gun owners are fine" because they always claim that the people who did dangerous things were "no responsible gun owners" when stuff inevitably happens. It's a tautology to try and pretend like the people doing all the stupid things aren't very similar to the people who say we should trust them.

Still, many recreational tools are quite deadly. There are a number of weapons being used recreationally. I have personally used bows, axes, and swords for example. But also non-weapons are deadly: all kinds of power tools for example.

And as long as people don't casually walk down the street with a chain saw or keep one under their pillow I don't really see the problem. The problem with guns is that people do handle them in unsafe ways (at least in the US). Switzerland for example has lots of guns, but people handle them differently than in the US.

I have to say, bows axes and swords are significantly less deadly then actual contemporary weapons. With power tools, you cant harm someone who is not standing nearby for example.

You can be quite irresponsible with sword and still cause significantly less damage or potential for damage then someone who is almost responsible with a gun.

In the case of the US, shooting people isn't even considered "misuse" of a firearm. The USA is the only developed country where it's socially and legally acceptable for civilians to own and carry firearms for the specific purpose of shooting people (ostensibly in self defence).

>> They are of course dangerous and deadly when misused, but so can be a lot of other recreational tools.

>Sorry to nitpick, but I strongly disapprove of this sentence because it hides the fact that guns are weapons, and generally speaking most "other recreational tools" are not.

It is the nature of humans that we are good at repurpose things. Exactly the same can be said about about almost anything like cars/bikes/boats. Initial design was not for recreation and fun but we repurpose them and even start to build exactly for that. Te same goes for firearms - race guns exist and they are design from ground up to shoot paper and steel :)

The biggest problem in the US, which no one ever talks about, isn’t long arms at all but easily concealable pistols.

I'm not necessarily talking about violence where someone is determined to use a gun to kill someone. I'm talking about the general problem of there being way too many guns out there than they should be, owned by people who have no interest in safe & responsible firearm ownership, which leads to dangerous bullshit such as celebratory gunfire. This is a separate problem that will remain even if gun violence is resolved.

Don't go that rabbit hole :-) Long guns with exeption of mass shootings are reposnonsible for fraction of a violence. In fact 95% of gun violence is USA is focued in less than a 5% of area of major cities. If You subsctract gangs shootings USA is closer to EU in terms of gun accidents/crimes that you would think.

Here is Polish article, with a lot of data about gun violence distrubution in USA: https://www.hoplofobia.info/kartograficzna-analiza-przestepc...

And some USA native info: https://www.hoplofobia.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Antho...

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