Pennsylvania school district bans Girls Who Code Book | Hacker News Reader

Pennsylvania school district bans Girls Who Code Book

theguardian.com

39 pointsBhilai50 comments

The index, which is linked in the article, reveals that the banned books are not How to Code books but a series of chapter novels that feature girls who are interested in coding but know nothing about it. Furthermore, they are only banned as classroom curriculum books, not banned from the library, which makes sense because the first book appears to contain no classroom merit whatsoever -- just like most chapter books aimed at kids.

I skimmed through the first book. It's cute. A bunch of girls who are excited to learn to make apps join the coding club and get tricked by their female teacher into solving a bunch of coding trivia outside the classroom in order to develop friendships. They finally learn some actual coding from the protagonist's older brother. There really is no merit to this as a classroom assigned reading book, and it would probably be a drag for boys to read. The writing style and thoughts and feelings of the main character are obviously directed heavily at girls, except for the older brother who's a cool prankster and who actually knows how to make basic utilities.

The Girls Who Code textbook by the same author, Learn to Code and Change the World, is not banned.

Thank you for doing the needful kind sir.

Is there a reason we don't trust the teachers to make that call? I imagine there are a near infinite number of books that have "no classroom merit", do we need to spell them all out?

It's also hard to square "it just doesn't provide any benefit in the classroom" with this quote from the board president:

> What we are attempting to do is balance legitimate academic freedom with what could be literature/materials that are too activist in nature, and may lean more toward indoctrination rather than age-appropriate academic content.

That sure seems to suggest someone thought a group of girls bonding in coding club was "too activist".

> Is there a reason we don't trust the teachers to make that call?

As a conservative, I don't trust teachers because their interests often don't align with my own. I heard from a friend in Florida that their kid started identifying as an ATI Radeon HD4850, which is absurd and not respecting AMD's brand.

> “It felt very much like a direct attack on the movement we’ve been building to get girls coding."

That's because it explicitly is such an attack:

“What we are attempting to do is balance legitimate academic freedom with what could be literature/materials that are too activist in nature, and may lean more toward indoctrination rather than age-appropriate academic content.” [Emphasis added]

The problem here, of course, is that activism is very much in the eye of the beholder, and so banning books on the grounds of being "too activist" effectively give you license to ban anything you want.

That is it exactly, very good.

Looks like it is not the case: https://twitter.com/centralyorksd/status/1574388246569795590

It’s a shame the article doesn’t mention that.

Ah, the irony of modern English usage: "Moms for Liberty" pushing for book bans.

The liberty to oppress women & minorities?

As overused as the term is, "Orwellian" seems weirdly apropos here.

This is absurd. As an educator, there is no excuse for banning books like this. To get the best thinkers in tech, we need to welcome everyone into tech, and these kinds of book provide on-roads for non-traditional pathways (i.e. representation matters).

Have you read these specific books?

I've just skimmed the content online, it looks fine to me.

Also, this shouldn't matter, even if I found the content reprehensible. To clarify my viewpoint further, I don't support banning any books.

Some of them are curriculum books and others are popular hits, so many of us have. Schools already have a vetting process and having the legislature perform ad hoc bans is a political show.

Horrible activist outrage click bait writing.

From https://www.cysd.k12.pa.us/:

> The District was recently made aware of a national article published last evening falsely claiming that Central York School District has banned the book/series Girls Who Code. The information published in this article is categorically false. This book series has not been banned, and they remain available in our libraries. If you have any questions, please email communications@cysd.k12.pa.us.

A question: has anyone here actually read this book?

While I'm frustrated that books like Maus are being caught up in these book bans, I'm more frustrated that books like "Gender Queer" are being treated as important books that should be in school libraries and accessible to fourteen year olds.

But most of all, I'm angry that whenever this discussion happens, people try to gaslight me into believing this is just bigotry, or ideological boogeyman that don't exist, or partisan politics.

It would be far more tolerable for someone to say, "Yes, books that teach and advocate queer theory should be available for children at X age." That, I can tolerate. Being told this is all a figment of my imagination, I cannot.

Where this leads? Because of the rampant intellectual dishonesty and outright lies about what's happening, it's very difficult for me to believe that "Girls Who Code" is JUST a book that aims to introduce women to software development.

Why don't you take a look for yourself before getting mad at your strawman? https://girlswhocode.com/assets/downloads/craft-prod/downloa...

> "are being treated as important books that should be in school libraries and accessible to fourteen year olds."

Why would these books not be important? Because reading the reviews it's seems that the book is (and I quote) "great resource for those who identify as nonbinary or asexual"

So yeah... this book not being important and > "Girls Who Code" is JUST a book that aims to introduce women to software development." IS just a figment of your imagination.

About books on gender roles: People are going through puberty at 14, and this is when questions about gender come up in a very pressing way. If you're trans, you might be disturbed by these changes and want some background information.

So it's actually correct for books about gender to be in the school library. I can't endorse a particular book ("Gender Queer"), of course -- is that a real example?

Usually the school librarian will be another check point on who has access to these books, if the library is open to a wider age group than, say, middle schoolers.

This kind of "just asking questions" -- singling out this particular category of book -- does carry special weight in the light of things like the coordinated campaign targeting Boston Children's Hospital. Why the extra scrutiny?

I don’t think this group codes, they make music videos and fundraise.

> it's very difficult for me to believe that "Girls Who Code" is JUST a book that aims to introduce women to software development.

But why is that even your business? Books shouldn't be banned just because they convey a narrative you don't like. I can accept that there atr reasons to ban books in some context (like there's no place for porn stuff in a school library) but it must be some decently valid reason, not “I don't like the content of this book because it goes against my beliefs ” because this is the definition of censorship (and that's how maus got banned too)

> But most of all, I'm angry that whenever this discussion happens, people try to gaslight me into believing this is just bigotry, or ideological boogeyman that don't exist, or partisan politics.

> Being told this is all a figment of my imagination, I cannot.

Perhaps then you can empathize with a queer teen who is angry that people try to gaslight them into believing their feelings are just... whatever it is you think they are?

It sounds like your frustration with being told your reasons for opinions are a figment of your imagination are very similar to those being told by people like you that their gender identity is a figment of theirs.

The weirdest bit is that leftists themselves held modern conservative stances on homosexual rejection, transsexual mental illness, and election security as recently as Bill Clinton. You can readily find unambiguous quotes for each online. Obama himself stated on the 2008 campaign trail that gay marriage should not be legal.

Now, suddenly, these stances aren't legitimate? I do certainly agree that this seems like industrial gaslighting.

> Obama himself stated on the 2008 campaign trail...

In your opinion, how much time is sufficient before we can safely use the phrase "Their opinions have evolved for the better since then"? Please specify a number.

> ...it's very difficult for me to believe that "Girls Who Code" is JUST a book that aims to introduce women to software development

You're sure it deserved to be banned... because it got banned?

Not sure that makes sense.

Well, if you are concerned that this series of books might be inappropriate for the target audience you could perhaps read one? The first book is 144 pages that are 8x5.5", you could probably finish it in an afternoon and then you would know for yourself if is as bad as you have decided it must be. You can start by reading an excerpt here:

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/537720/the-friendsh...

Pardon me, I haven't decided anything.

My question was explicitly if there is anyone here who has -- and acknowledging that any prejudice I have against it is strictly because of how I'm treated by people who aren't arguing in good faith.

Am I not allowed to be human?

EDIT: FWIW, many of the replies here are already par for the course. I'm fairly open to a discussion about this book in particular -- but I know several other parents who are not. They're burnt out from this nonsense.

How do you expect them to react, when the first response to their concerns is "Bigot! Strawman! Not your business! Figment of your imagination!"

How do you expect commenters to react to your post when you haven't read the book and start soapboxing with your preconceived notions of the book without even engaging with what is actually in the book? It's hard to take you in good faith when 90% of your post is starting a fight with people.

Have you read the book?

Yes, I literally posted an excerpt of it in response to your first comment!

I saw the excerpt. I'll take a look later for sure, but I don't expect I'll find anything objectionable in the first chapter.

In any case, I'm quite serious: if you want to be able to reach across the aisle and effectively advocate for this book, take a look at this thread, and imagine you are on the receiving end of it.

The concerns parents have about activist and inappropriate content in their children's libraries isn't assuaged by hostility, denial, and deligitimizing their concerns. An open and disarmed response will easily win them over.

Thank you for sharing the excerpt, I'll look forward to reading it later.

Your comment comes across the same as the people who say they don't want schools to discuss the existinence of different views than their own. Maybe they are rabid capitalists, so they don't want their kids to hear about the existence of communism or something. The world exists, there are gay people. Some of them started thinking about these things when they were teenagers. They were not "tricked" or convinced to be something else.

> ”I'm more frustrated that books like "Gender Queer" are being treated as important books that should be in school libraries and accessible to fourteen year olds.”

Why shouldn’t such books be accessible to fourteen year olds? Are you afraid that reading the wrong books will somehow turn your kids gay or trans?

Yes, no shit books that teach and advocate queer theory should be available for teenagers.

The reason nobody is saying that is that it doesn't have to be said. This isn't Afghanistan, this is a free country that values education and freedom of information. If someone of any age wants to read a book, that is their right regardless of the topic. Nobody is being forced to read it.

It boggles my mind that there are Americans who think otherwise. What possible reason could there be for banning a book from a school library? Especially an educational book that talks about something that's been studied in academia for 30 years.

"Girls Who Code" is about introducing girls to coding. What else would it be about? If you do some searching it's not hard to find a pdf if you want to check.

But it's banned for the same reason Queer Theory is banned: it empowers people to defy traditional gender roles. Traditionally, women aren't supposed to have high powered tech careers that pay six figures. Traditionally, women are expected to have children, to be financially dependent on men and to put family before career. Learning to code isn't part of the script. Women are already more educated than men, they vote more than men and if they get into computer science they might start earning more than men too.

The person you are replying to seemed clearly to be against exposing children to books like you are supporting. They were for book banning.

I don't think anyone can really say if the grounds for banning those books are legitimate until they've actually read them. In any case, I have had women complain to me that software conferences I've recommended they attend (because they are focused on bringing more women into programming) were too activist in nature and turned them off programming.

Any school library has limited space and must decide what books to stock. I don't know if the book in question is good or not. I will say that public schools should not be supporting clubs that discriminate on the basis of sex, as the Girls Who Code organization does. My daughter has been able to participate, but my son has not, which is unfair.

This is not a club, it is a series of books. If you or your son are so threatened by the idea that the main characters of a series of books about problem-solving using coding skills (and teaching of same) can be girls then I think the one who has a problem here is you.

>"This is not a club, it is a series of books."

According to their website, Girls Who Code runs a set of clubs: https://girlswhocode.com/programs/clubs-program

The books are not the club, but the two seem closely linked.

While yes every library has limited space this article seems to clearly state this is regarding banning the book.

Regarding your son, I don't agree with not allowing boys to participate. (Which I doubt by the way) BUT I do understand why this could happen.

Regardless. The situation with your son doesn't add anything to the discussion about the book being banned

It looks like anyone is allowed to join.

https://girlswhocode.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360040258...

At my son's high school, boys were not welcome to join the Girls Who Code after school club. And let's be realistic. Even if the fine print on some site boys are allowed, the name is unwelcoming to them.

> boys were not welcome to join the Girls Who Code after school club

That's undoubtedly encouraging news to Moms for Liberty. If it was like that everywhere, they might reverse their stance.

That sounds like an issue with the school, not with the book? Perhaps you could reach out and have a friendly discussion with the organizers.

One anecdote to another, as a man, I have participated in numerous "women in engineering" tech days and sessions. I don't find them unwelcoming at all.

1. book bans have nothing to do with shelf space. it's weird that you would even bring this up. 2. the school board president does not mention book quality in their statement at all, but rather content objections. did you read the article? 3. this is a book, not a club, but also the associated organization states the following regarding boys in their local clubs: "we encourage our Clubs to welcome any member who wishes to join the Girls Who Code mission irrespective of gender identity".

stack weeding, and book banning, are different animals.

> public schools should not be supporting clubs that discriminate on the basis of sex

Then they must ban football, baseball, basketball, tennis, soccer, etc

Public schools are required by Title IX to have roughly equivalent athletic programs for boys and girls. There are girls' teams for all of the sports you listed, except football. There is no Boys Who Code club at our school or any other.

First you say there should be no sex discrimination. Then I say, what about this other thing that has sex discrimination. And you reply, well, that sex discrimination is justified, because reasons. So you already are fine with sex discrimination as long as there is a good reason for it.

> There is no Boys Who Code club at our school or any other.

Why do you think that is?

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