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Comment by VyseofArcadia | Hacker News Reader

I think you've missed the point. A professional engineer isn't just a certification. It also grants the power and indeed the duty to say "no" to things that are unsafe. If a cost-cutting change is proposed that means the bridge might collapse, you say no.

But in software? If management says you need to cut corners to get something out by an arbitrary deadline, well, you cut the corners or they'll find someone who will.

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I like how a city engineer at little rock put it to me one time. “Having a license does not mean you have all the answers, but you are kind of responsible for them.“

> A professional engineer isn't just a certification. It also grants the power and indeed the duty to say "no" to things that are unsafe.

At the end of the day, you still work for them, so with enough "nos" they'll just fire you or assign you to projects which don't matter.

> you still work for them, so with enough "nos" they'll just fire you or assign you to projects which don't matter

They'd have to replace you with someone else similarly certified.

And surely, there will never be anyone who’ll just cynically use their professional credential to make a lot of money this way. Of course, there are plenty of people who do shady things like this today, but clearly obtaining professional certification will make angels out of humans.

If you lose your PE because you do what you suggest you lose your ability to work. Your career ends, formally.

Software certifications, afaik, are not like this, but instead are sort of like merit badges.

If. Many people will take a risk, as the risk will pay off in most cases that aren't totally egregious. Most shady scenarios are not "people will certainly die if I sign off on this", they're rather "eh, this is somewhat against the rules, but it's not that important, it just increases the risk from one in 1000 years to 1 in 300 years". People who will accept the risk to their personal careers will be in high demand as "people who make projects happen", and they'll be highly renumerated for their increased risk profile.

In any case, if PE was required to work in software, I wouldn't have had a job in the first place, so I'll always oppose these kind of efforts to shut out the outsiders and underprivileged people.

I work as an electrician in industrie automation. To say "no" is very important. It's not easy, but I don't have to worry they ever fire me for my "no" because they know I'm right.

As an electrician for example, we have to check almost everyrthing with various tests and sign it with my name.

For me, the software world still looks and feel like wild west.

A PE at an engineering firm is a bit like a partner at a law firm. They carry a big stick.

And get paid 1/10th the amount of money? Don't forget that.

Well said. And if you fail to say no to something that is unsafe, you can be sued for malpractice. The fact that management pressured you is of no consequence.

In theory, yes. In practice, probably not. Most stuff that "falls over" after being built is due to poor maintenance or skipped checks. I never read any news about "PEs" (people seem to be drooling over that title) being sued.

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