Move The Web Forward | Hacker News Reader

Move The Web Forward

movethewebforward.org

126 pointsnecolas19 comments

If these sorts of ultra-long-single-page-with-fixed-element-jump-point web pages are 'forward' for the web, I don't really want to help move it there.

Couldn't agree more. The design motif gives me the impression of a manifesto, with a call to arms. In spite of the actual content.

It is actually a call to arms, to get web developers be actively involved in making the web better.

This is excellent! Its awesome to see yet another great set of resources for aspiring web developers. I am not very surprised that Paul Irish is one of the developers leading the charge on this. If someone followed through this list in several days I imagine that their proficiency would increase quite dramatically. I especially like the layout and the easy to follow steps throughout the website.

If anyone is also interested in another excellent compilation of learning websites. Another collaboration of web developers created this:

http://w3fools.com/

It provides some excellent resources on beginning to learn HTML and CSS.

Move the Web Forward. Prior to that, remove the layouting bugs (horizontal scrolling, after scrolling to bottom and then back to top). Be a good role model

Maybe its a first draft but the colour schema could also use some rework.

I'm all for this. A lot of developers I've met learned HTML and CSS back in like 2007 and their skills and understanding of new technology hasn't progressed since then. The web is moving forward, and you should learn some new skills.

Wonderful resource. Very helpful to see all the important info on this one page (and I actually like this design) given the panoply of disparate resources out there.

I'm all for this. Especially teaching others. I recently befriended someone from HN who's been asking how to code in HTML and CSS. I directed to my github account and have been writing little tutorials to answer his questions over email. It really helps you get a better understanding of your own skills when you teach it to others. I'd also much prefer someone ask me directly than reading some tutorials online. There are so so many tutorials online that are teaching people the old, non-standard way of doing things. Basically, it's like all the tutorials from 1997 somehow get the best rankings in google for "HTML tutorial". Though it is important not to overestimate your skill level and hopefully you aren't passing along bad practices and techniques to others.

Other ways to move the web forward: stop supporting Internet Explorer altogether. That browser needs to stop being coddled and forced to get with the times. The difference between Webkit and Gecko rendering is almost a non issue but when you start having to support Trident then it's almost like having to code a site twice. Let's just stop supporting it and either let that thing die or force it to keep up. Version 9 and 10 are steps in the right direction but it can do better.

That said, we can't always drop IE support. Very high traffic, corporate, and intranet sites will still need to have support for IE for some time but all in all, lets drop it when it makes sense. Personal sites and even some business sites can work. I personally don't do anything to specifically support IE on my own business' website and it hasn't hurt me a bit. Let's take a risk here and there and drop IE support and move forward.

Moving forward is about more than just code though. It's also about user experience. A site with code that's 100% valid but is hard to use or uses distracting elements like gratuitous animations isn't moving forward. It's just building a site that looks like its from the 90's except with modern, valid code. That's lame.

Other ways to move the web forward: stop supporting Internet Explorer altogether...when you start having to support Trident then it's almost like having to code a site twice

Really? I've been pretty happy with IE9, generally 98% of my code works perfectly, it's just a matter of drop shadows, rounded corners, etc that don't work. I honestly want to know what breaks so horribly that it's like coding a site twice.

My memories of IE6 make IE9 seem like a completely different browser. It is somewhat, since they rewrote their rendering engine to fully support CSS 2.1 in IE8.

IE9 is great, if you're still developing websites from 2-3 years ago. I wish it had been available back then. For today's sites, you need IE 11, most likely. Of course, it will be outdated by the time it's available too.

The one promising thing is that the IE development team now seems to be really intent on supporting open standards and being compatible, and they're catching up faster than they used to. They should reach parity within another major release or three.

IE9 is great, if you're still developing websites from 2-3 years ago. I wish it had been available back then. For today's sites, you need IE 11, most likely.

Can you elaborate? What IE11-specific features do current web site require? I'd like to find out what I've been neglecting...

See http://caniuse.com for specific features. IE9 isn't awful and IE10 will be better, but IE10, which will be released next year, is anticipated to have less support across the board than other browsers have today. That imposes a drag on use of new features, because of the need to backfill with js-based emulation or to provide alternate implementation of features that don't depend on tech IE can't handle.

Other ways to move the web forward: stop supporting Internet Explorer altogether.

Agreed, thank you! I'm pretty close to launching a web app I've been developing over the past 6 months or so; I've decided not to support any version of IE.

I made that decision in part b/c of the feature set it needs to support, but also due to principle - I don't believe Microsoft has ever been as passionate about the web as it's competitors. The browser apathy represented in IE 6 - 8 supplements that, and we still see the same in recent versions. For example, IE 9 lacking support for local databases, ES5 strict, remaining on long-term release cycles, etc. So if we want better, we have to vote for it, by choosing to drop support for the lesser browsers that exist in the ecosystem.

This webpage is not available

Why the downvotes? DNS for this site was not working at the time this was posted. Possibly they just changed there IP and it did not propagate to all dns servers.

The downvotes are simply because this comment adds nothing of value. Before you submit a comment, look at it and think "does this add something valuable to the conversation?" If not, chances are you shouldn't post it.

Interesting that the words "Microsoft" or "Explorer" don't even appear on the whole page.

Whatever your opinion on either, ignoring their existence completely is not going help "move the web forward".

Hm, maybe we're not reading the same thing but:

Under 'How do I keep up with what’s landing in browsers?' it says 'IE Blog - Updates for IE'

Under 'Follow them on Twitter' they provide the Twitter handle for the Internet Explorer dev team.

There are a couple more instances but they're clearly not excluding IE.

There are a couple of links to Microsoft's stuff: a link to IE's dev blog via "IE Blog - updates for IE", a link to @IE twitter account (which has the word "Explorer" in there actually) and a link to "Help IE" to file bug reports.

Cheers!

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