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Comment by georgyo | Hacker News Reader

I don't play chess, and this story doesn't particularly interest me, but since it keeps coming up and I've now read several articles on it...

It seems to me that the entire chess community is absolutely ruining this guy's life on an accusation without any proof. This chess champ had clout to burry this guy with a tweet.

Carlsen won't play in future tournaments where this guy is also there and won't do a rematch. It seems like he is just sulking.

From an outsider of the game, without any proof and without a rematch, everyone is destroying Niemann unjustly. Comedians ripping into him.

This scandal has removed any interest I may have had in competitive chess not because of the possible cheating, but how the chess world handled it.

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He's already admitted to cheating in online tournaments. Someone saying "Yeah I cheat in chess online but no way I would ever cheat in chess in real life" doesn't hold much water in my book.

It's also weird that if someone is good enough to beat one of the best chess players in the world, that they would also resort to cheating against much weaker opponents.

> He's already admitted to cheating in online tournaments.

He did when he was 12 and 16. It's impossible to assess whether that holds value (particularly difficult because Niemann is 19). I wouldn't be surprised if other professional chess players cheated as young teenagers.

To be fair, that's only according to what he himself has admitted, which doesn't rule out more cheating than that.

And chess.com, the site that banned him from playing for cheating has suggested that he’s not telling the whole truth.

Stop spamming this, chess.com doesn't have the best reputation either.

In my teens I cheated in counter strike, maybe a total of 20 games. As an adult, I still play FPS games but have no interest in cheating.

Also cheating in online chess is a very low barrier if entry. Anyone can do it. When I did cheat in counter strike, it was as simple as wanting to see how it worked. Downloading some questionable binaries and running them.

A simile might be downloading an illegal copy of windows and stealing a car. Both are technically stealing, but stealing windows is not a predictor that you are going to steal a car.

Cheating in person so discreetly that no one is even sure that it happened is the opposite. It would have required custom hardware, discreet placement, and a lot of practice reading the data. Nothing suggests that he was a hardware engineer if any sort. How many accomplices did he have? The more people, the harder to keep a secret.

Similarly, his offers to rematch and play even naked are really doubling down. Magnus seems scared to entertain these matches.

> his offers to rematch and play even naked are really doubling down. Magnus seems scared to entertain these matches.

It might make sense to have a theory of how he was cheating before accepting a rematch.

Magnus also has nothing to gain. If Magnus loses he looks like a jerk for accusing him of cheating, or an idiot for not being able to setup conditions that prevent him from cheating.

If Magnus wins, he proves nothing since he’s expected to win. All it proves is that the first game was a fluke and they’re ratings disparities are accurate.

Since Magnus is a chess grandmaster, are you saying that he applied his skills in real life?

Apparently, even if this person was or was not cheating, refusing a rematch and calling him a cheater was the best possible move.

But it seems as Hans wasn't entirely honest about his cheating and therefore chess dot com banned him a week ago.

And there's the incredible sharp increase of rating, basically from 2400 IM level in 2021 to Super GM 2700 level (live ratings) within 2 years. Yes, that is legitimately possible, other players had similar incredible gains, so it's not completely unheard of, but he is either one of the greatest improvers of all-time or something is wrong.

First, you're full of shit - Hans hit 2400 in 2018.

Secondly, that increase in rating is totally normal for someone playing around that level.

Magnus took about half that time to go from 2300 to 2500.

Ding took like 1yr for similar

Alireza simiar...

https://ratings.fide.com/

Hans was below 2500 in 2021, that's IM level. A typical young IM is in the 2400-2500 range.

To be precise he was 2484 in 2021-Jan as you can verify here https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2093596/chart

Hence he went from IM level to Super GM level within 1 year and 9 month.

Another coincidence is that GM Maxim Dlugy, a coach of Hans, is a known cheater.

Remember, he only ever cheated the two times that it is public knowledge that he caught. Never before, never after, and never in the 4 years between those two events. If that doesn’t sound like the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then I ain’t no chess grand master!

Show me one person who didn't do something stupid in the 12-16 age range. Chess.com are the only ones claiming to have evidence that he cheated more than he admitted, but they didn't show it and they have a partnership with Carlsen.

This is a situation where both parties have reasons to lie and there's no solid evidence for anything. There's no reason to do anything or blame anyone until any new information comes up.

Carlsen's acting with strong compulsion that Niemann is a cheater.

Withdrawing from a round-robin and losing a game on purpose are quite strong indications of this.

It's obviously a bad situation for the chess world. ... But, I think if you strongly believe cheating is going on without being addressed, protest seems an entirely understandable.

That still does not mean what he's doing is the right thing to do.

Yes! This isn't the middle ages anymore. To accuse someone, you'd imagine that they would actually lie up evidence that he is cheating. This seems like a weird witch hunt.

Nit: the literal witch hunts were mostly after the end of the middle ages

True! Didn't consider that. New age doesn't sound that cool tho.

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