Google Bar: The next stage in Google redesign | Hacker News Reader

Google Bar: The next stage in Google redesign

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179 pointssahaj118 comments

I'm not one who hates on new things just because they're change, but I hate this already.

Windows 95 brought us the Start Menu. This is a Google Start Menu. It's based on hierarchical menus that are fiddly to navigate, especially if any terms are long and you have to stay in a narrow row to not have it undo your last movement. You have to move to the top, select something, move down, then if there's a sub-menu, move right. Why not make it e.g. a 3x3 grid so I have to move less with fewer errors and the blocks can be bigger, and you can add more default icons without it scrolling halfway down the screen?

Besides, everyone knows clicking the logo takes you to the root page. Why are Google retraining all future users to expect an X-bar on our websites? Now, they can't trust what will happen when clicking that. It could be a menu, it could take you off the page, what will it do?

And it still chooses the dumbest things as my defaults. Youtube? I've never, ever clicked on Youtube from there. Ever. Why show it to me? Give me Calendar, which is now on the sub-menu. Don't show me Search because I've never clicked on that, I just hit ctrl-t and type a phrase in a new window. [edit] and Reader is hidden but + is everywhere? Someone isn't measuring clicks, I'm thinking.

Win95, I blame you.

[edit2] at least let me drag and drop stuff like I could in 1995, so I can rearrange the defaults.

I'm with you on every point. I'll even go as far as to say that they don't want you to use the menu.

I'm just throwing this out there, but I think they want people to stay on the search screen. They want you to search for everything to get to something. Reader? Search for Reader. Gmail? Search for Gmail.

If you use search more, they have more opportunity to make money from ads. I'm not sure how much they care about any other product so this could be why every other product is now harder to get to.

It's not a terrible idea. How many of us use Alfred or Quicksilver or the like?

Exactly

> Besides, everyone knows clicking the logo takes you to the root page

You might not need to click, maybe it's a hover, so clicking still works. Admittedly, having the hover might reduce the clicking discoverability since it actually makes it less obvious.

I suppose it's a mockup but it shows Mail in the list when the current web app is actually Mail.

Maybe the items will dynamically change order according to your habits. You know, like those Word 97 menus.

Contrary to the Start button it fails to use an infinite size target since you can't ram the mouse in the top-left corner and expect it to work. That Google logo is quite a big target and each item is actually bigger than previously so it might still be an improvement according to Fitts's law compared to the previous bar, but navigating down a nested popup menu sure is no improvement.

PS: originally the Windows taskbar failed at Fitts's law by having some inactive 2px padding which prevented a click to actually land after ramming the mouse. I can't recall when that was fixed.

And it still chooses the dumbest things as my defaults. Youtube? I've never, ever clicked on Youtube from there. Ever.

But I bet most people who visit do exactly that.

A long time ago Google was all about people like us, but this has not been true for a while.

But today we live in the age of personalization; I think we can do better.

I'd love it if more UIs were as customizable as in games. Specifically MMOs/WoW. I haven't played in a good many years, but one thing I loved in that game was customizing the pulp out of the UI.

I assume that's asking a bit much, though.

Most of the modifications you can do to your WoW UI is done through addons. With user-scripts/extensions you could probably modify your Google UI as much as you'd like.

The hover nav is a usability abomination.

It's not discoverable--the only clue it's there is a tiny arrow. On the old bar it was totally obvious where the links were to jump to other properties.

It presents an inconsistent user interface. If you move the pointer in from the bottom, you're on the left nav. If you move the pointer in from the top, you're on the hover nav. It would be like getting two totally different neighborhoods depending on whether you drove in from the north or south.

It requires precise mouse choreography. It's not enough to aim for the target, you have to follow a specific path to get there (especially true with the extra fly-out submenu). If you don't, you have to go back to the beginning and start over. The old bar was a fixed set of targets--easy to hit from wherever.

I'm glad Google have programmers that know metrics that can look at the results of this. Usability mess.

Metrics and A/B testing were replaced by HiPPO and Facebook freakout/brain-drain at Google a year or two ago.

Food for thought - would we have the PocketProtectorPlex fucking up usability across half the web now if it wasn't for Zuckerberg's "everything's going great, let's start a land war in Russia!" mentality and drive to own identity across the entire internet?

Google has been trying to take over the web since Zuck was in high school. Look at when OpenID/OAuth came out.

I quit using Gmail, Google Reader and GCal this year. I didn't like how Google bullies me into using G+.

And how is it doing that here?

Because all of these new stuff Google has been putting is a sneaky way on putting G+ all over Google products.

Bottomline, they need develop good taste in web design.

Last time i checked you dont need to use the evil g+ product - the nav bar was a good thing. You just rant for no real reason in my opinion.

I feel the same way as bodegajed; I consider the way they're littering G+ everywhere to be very tacky, akin to something I'd expect from Microsoft or AOL. While I'm far from boycotting Google tools, it does make me want to avoid G+ entirely.

To be clear, though: I think this new bar in general is a usability improvement. The gray bar looked like ass, and having a consistent search box does make sense.

I did it. I logged out of Gmail/G+ in my primary browser, to unbreak Search, and I use a private window for Gmail.

Google puts G+ in your searh results, with no opt out. G+ is fine on its own, but the creepy invasion across other products is annoying. Google used to be the classy alternative on the web. Now they are trying to out-mySpace Facebook.

Yes, but how is moving the navigation bar to a drop down doing that? I understand your point, but unless I am missing something its just a random complaint against Google, in this case.

Google is not bullying you into using G+. You don't have to use it if you don't want to.

I agree with you totally, however this isn't unique to Google at all - it represents a much wider lack of thought and care by UI designers across all kinds of software.

If UI designers thought about the points you make above as routine, then we'd end up better menus for sure.

What would you suggest in its place? As their number of 'core' products increase, it is harder to come up with a unifying UI that isn't menu based.

(Not a troll - seriously want to know about other UI alternatives).

The idea of a menu is fine, it is the implementation that needs work. They could easily fix this with two changes:

1) Add a button or link that is specific to exposing the menu (call it "Menu" or "Products" or "Go to other Google services" or whatever). This way it's obvious what the user must do to expose further options. That also frees the Google logo to simply link home, which is what logos generally do on the web.

2) Make the menu open and close with a click instead of hover. That way you don't have be an expert mouse pilot to get to the link you want. It also maintain consistency with the dominant paradigm in a GUI, which is "click to take an action." Think about it--have you EVER seen a hover menu built into an OS? I'm not familiar with Linux GUIs but on Windows and Mac OS X, menus always take a click to expose them.

Edit: Just submitted an image of this to HN:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3296021

Only just checked 'threads' and saw this - Yes, exactly - those tweaks address the main concerns. Some upvotes for you.

And Reader is pushed further and further away…

It was in the black bar initially, between Photos and Web, but for whatever reason, was pushed down the "more" menu to be replaced by "Sites", which I'm pretty sure nobody has ever ever used.

From the video (which by the way, sometimes has Reader in the black bar, sometimes not), it looks like Reader is relegated to the second column of the "more" menu. So went from one mouse movement and one click from Gmail, to two mouse movements and two clicks to, now, three fairly wide mouse movements and one click. Fantastic.

They should just be more straightforward and just write a blogpost titled "We don't want you to use Reader, but why don't you make a webpage instead?".

One of the effects of this design is to disadvantage frequent users of any non-core Google Products. For instance, if you visit Docs or Reader every day, multiple times a day, you're going to spend a lot of time hovering and cursing.

Solution: let logged-in users star their frequently-used apps, and surface them at the root level menu (or even better, on the bar itself... almost like a Dock?).

Alternative: like the Chrome New Tab page, automatically surface a user's most-used apps.

The reason I never noticed the increasing subordination of google reader (a product I use daily, or even hourly), is because I have other shortcuts for products I use that frequently. In fact, it's a little strange to me that someone would go to the google homepage in order to navigate to reader through the nav menu. That would never even occur to me. If I was already in the location bar, I would simply type in the url for google reader. Why would you type in the url for google homepage instead?

I think there are more people who have their browser's home page set to google.com, where every new window or tab opens that page automatically. When that's the case, why have bookmarks for other Google properties when they're already available on your default page?

Granted, I'm in the minority of users who set their homepage to "about:blank" so that it's up and ready as fast as possible and focuses the location/search bar by default. I use bookmarks to open new tabs for just about anything I visit on a regular basis.

The alternative is definitely the way to go.

Everyone's freaking out about Reader already but it could already be setup to function like this for all we know.

For instance, if you visit Docs or Reader every day, multiple times a day, you're going to spend a lot of time hovering and cursing.

I just have it as a pinned tab in the browser, along with Mail and Calendar and other essentials. Frankly, I'll be glad to have the extra screen real estate back; of late there have been too many toolbars, and on the Chromebook I started to feel like they were eating the top 20-25% of my screen.

Perhaps the intention is not to facilitate the needs of Google "power users", but instead help ease others into the core products that they're focusing on.

I, like others here, have shortcuts to those items in which I use frequently - but even then that's too much effort at times. Sometimes it's just easier to type "rea" in the url bar and let the browser fill in the rest.

Yet they continue to make improvements to Google Reader, based on user feedback. For example, I just noticed yesterday that they gave each item a container with borders and margins, which makes it much more pleasant and separates the content better.

As I've said elsewhere in the thread, why don't you have other, faster ways to get to your commonly used pages/apps? I have a shortcut on the new tab page, for example. (Two clicks: new tab, shortcut; never moves unless I move it.) I also use an extension called site launcher so that my most common apps are just a keyboard shortcut away. Alternatively, there's the bookmark bar.

I don't use bookmarks and like my UI as uncluttered as possible, thus I don't have the bookmark bar displayed.

I typically go to websites by typing their URL and Chrome completes it. It works for most sites I visit: for example, I can type "m"+Enter and go to Gmail, or "n"+Enter and go to Hacker News.

But some Google sites/apps don't work as well because the name is after google.com. E.g. Calendar is https://www.google.com/calendar/, Reader is http://www.google.com/reader/ and typing "reader" doesn't actually complete it, just suggests it below the location bar. Meaning: I have to select it in the drop-down. So having the link in Gmail was working pretty well for me in my routines: check my email, click the link, check Reader.

I've also become completely blind to what is displayed in the new tab: apps/shortcuts and most visited sites.

But you're right, I could probably find better ways…

edit: thanks to all of you who replied! My life is forever changed :) Just tried it, it works and Chrome already knows what to do…

reader.google.com will redirect. I've gone there enough that chrome will take "rea" and send me to reader ("r" and "re" go to reddit...)

I think you're stalking the way I use Chrome.

FWIW, I use “http://reader.google.com” and “http://calendar.google.com” which both redirect to ”https://google.com/[service]”, but allow me to type “r” and ”cal” (respectively) as shortcuts in Chrome’s omnibar.

This is what I do. I love that Chrome has a pretty solid idea of what I want, it's like a really fast launch tool.

Using chrome: for me, typing rea- completes to reader.google.com.

What's frustrating is that you can "break" one letter prediction by accidentally typing (for example) f\-enter (added a backslash) instead of f-enter for Facebook. After doing that once, it breaks the prediction permanently thereafter, from what I've seen.

Shift+Delete on those entries (or Shift+Fn+Delete on a Mac) to remove them. :-)

I noticed they added the yellow highlight to the currently opened item, and it makes it really hard for me to concentrate on the article I have open. I liked the design revamp, but that little highlight they added a few days ago throws me.

I too find that very distracting. After all, they use(d?) the yellow highlight for messages at the top of their screen (eg "Loading..." or something) so now I'm constantly thinking something important is happening above the text I'm reading.

Google has not fixed the fundamental problem with this latest release of Reader. It is as if the people redesigning Reader don't actually use Reader to ... you know, read things. On my 16:9 screen, the top buttons eat up most of the readable, vertical space. Scrolling through items is an eyesore. This new search bar will not help things. Google continues to definitively demonstrate its incompetence at visual design and usability.

The positioning of applications in the menu is based on their popularity, and the sad truth is that Reader is not particularly popular.

But really, is the position that important? Do you actually rely on this to get to Reader?

Are they gonna redesign Google now every 2 month? I mean the new Google Bar looks ok, but the "old" black one is stylish too, so why just throw it out after such short period of time?

According to this: http://vimeo.com/29965463 it's just an iteration on the new design.

I don't think this is a new redesign every two months... this incremental iteration at work. They wanted the launch the new design, but the existing bar was probably deeply intertwined with all of the existing sites. It takes a while to get all the teams on the same page.

I'm surprised the existing bar got itself intertwined with existing sites - didn't they just launch it a few months ago? I don't understand why they need to change it so soon.

the bar has been around for a long time. it being black is a fairly new thing.

Changing it to a much more prominent black doesn't fit with the idea that they were planning to ditch it at that time, to me.

Too easy to dismiss and ignore -- after all, it's just a glorified list of links, on a dark background that feels more like something belonging to the browser bar rather than to the actual website.

With the new design, the bar will take over the search feature, which is something you use every day, the single feature every google website shares, so you won't be able to ignore that the bar exists, and with the bar, your G+ profile, which is the real target... I'm not convinced that hiding the links is entirely a good idea though.

Maybe they'll alternate dark/light every time they want to draw attention to a new change in the bar.

When they want to draw attention to something, they just open a giant popular div. I don't know whether Google or Facebook started it, but now I have to wade through a thicket of popups whenever I return to a product after a few weeks away.

This seems pretty Start Menu-esque, but I'm interested to see if the need to rollover will impact my workflow when moving between Mail/Reader/Calendar.

I think I like the look though.

I always have to click the current More link anyway since all I ever need is Documents and it's always hidden in there for some reason.

That's interesting because it sounds like not everybody has the same stuff in the bar, but yet, the order doesn't match what people are actually using the most, which they know. (in my case, I use Reader a lot, but it's under "more")

I just realized that every page linked to in the current (black) bar (aside from Google+ and Photos, which both go to Plus) has search bars with different heights, widths and logo placement. This new bar will be a nice change.

I don't care what they do as long as they go back to white or light colors. Black is cool if it's an Acura, on a web page it's hideous.

Not at all a fan of the fixed bar. I'm on a 13" macbook. That window space is precious, and this bar is bigger than the last, non-fixed one.

If you're using chrome the search box is redundant anyway.

Using Chrome the browser takes up 100px between tabs before the window starts, this bar looks like another 100px on top of that. That's 1/4 of my monitor before content begins.

They sure are putting lots of eggs in the Google+ basket.

I don't think this would change if google+ was ripped out. its a navigation change, not google+ integration.

I'm not sure you get it... Google+ is [the future of] Google.

That's what s/he said.

This is a great illustration of the difference between designing to help your users do what they want to do, and designing to make your users do what you want them to do.

I think most of the design changes we've been seeing on Facebook and Google fall into the latter category. People designing for the latter category probably also broadly explains why there are so many terribly and professionally designed sites out there.

I agree with other commenters that it looks sort of like a start menu. Which indicates Google's commitment to replacing traditional OSs.

I wonder when we'll see the Google bar integrated into Chrome.

I thought along similar lines when I saw the video - there is already a search bar in the same place on every page, the address bar!

While I don't hate it... it does look familiar... http://i.imgur.com/fEHbB.jpg

I just hope they make every page consistent. What annoyed me about the current navigation is that the links move around, and Reader is tucked far away under More.

I don't think rollover UI is a good idea for touch screen devices..

Checkout a recent build of chromium ... (especially the profile/alias switcher with "Slice", "Agent X", and "Fluffy") I'm using rev 111735.

I'm guessing anything now in the Google+ toolbar is quickly headed up a level into the "jetpack'ish" plumbing ... this latest redesign news seems like a fast-track'd gateway to that.

Here's an interesting question, how much have load times changed since the introduction of these bars (I know they've been present for a while) including this new iteration? Wasn't it always one of the major points of concern for Google to provide users with the quickest possible experience ? If I recall they used to have it down to a science. I don't think such changes can be noticed by the human brain but one would think it has risen and it would be interesting to know if it makes a difference and if they've abandoned that thought process in favour of the social sphere.

It might have, but it doesn't really matter because page load times were never the end goal anyways—engagement was. More people searched, emailed, whatever with faster page loads.

Now more people will see and use all of the things Google has to offer. Cross-pollination. Their services have been silo'ed for too long. I'm sure this is the kind of advice Steve Jobs gave Sergey Brin a couple months ago.

When searching, if Google doesn't detect my query as a potential Image search, it's always been convenient to just click 'Images' on the top and get your current query in image form.

This used to work for other services - News in particular being one I used frequently - until the past few weeks in which they broke this 'transfer your search' functionality.

This appears to be the endgame. I don't know if this dropdown will preserve search terms when switching to Images, but even if it does, the additional UI fiddling is going to be a big net loss for my Google workflow.

Try clicking on "Images" or "News" on the left side of the search results page.

(disclaimer: I work for Google)

Why doesn't this work on https://encrypted.google.com?

If this solves the horrendous, inconsistent multiple account login issue from the last major rollout, then I'm willing to suffer wasted space and more clicks.

I welcome the removal of the black bar for one simple reason: the valuable screen space it had taken on my netbook has been restored to some degree.

The article makes no mention of using this with just a keyboard.

I wish writers were required (by company culture, not law![1]) to include accessibility options when talking about new features or software. Even if they had to say "Turn this feature off if you're using an on-screen keyboard, because the combination sucks."

[1] Although I'm not averse to anti-discrimination laws being used a bit more vigorously.

Interesting changes. I can't say one way or another without using it how it will effect my experience but if they're trying to lower the bar for use the best thing they could do is make it easier for people to deal with multiple accounts. My google+ account is linked to my personal email which I'm never logged into during the day since we use google apps at work.

One of the things I liked most about Google search was that there was no garbage on the page. Just a simple search field on a white background. But then came the black bar at the top (which I could not figure out how to get rid of), now this... One step at a time, they're getting closer to other garbage sites.

When exactly does this go live? Or is it different for different locations/people? I still have a black bar.

I would assume that, as with most Google things, it gets rolled out in a 24-48 hour time span. Disclaimer: No source for this, but that's how it tends to go, if memory serves me right.

Edit: Maybe comments on the post by [+Eddie Kessler](https://plus.google.com/111742562190411471360/posts/eGL4JeDM...) will reveal more (they do not at the time of writing).

That looks accurate per https://plus.google.com/100535338638690515335/posts/YqWNc9uD...

What's interesting to me is that if I had not seen the video, I would not have immediately guessed that hovering over the Google logo displays a drop-down menu. The tiny gray triangle next to the logo seems like a very poor affordance.

Honestly, this is how uninnovative Google has become.. They get excited over introducing a drop down menu!

I know Apple are known for overhyping basic functionality. But, seriously? A DROP DOWN MENU THAT breaks UI for touch screen devices.. Sigh.

How presumptuous. Have you tried the new interface on a touch screen device?

The red indicator is a bit of a tax on attention considering the low importance things it typically signals. UI designers should be careful about attracting the eye this way w/o good reason.

Something that the demo video has made me think of, is how their new UI style seem like it would be easy to use on a tablet. The large whitespace, oversized icons and 'clickable' areas.

Yes. Instead of responsive design, Google is throwing PC users under the bus to push for and invest in Android and tablets.

I must admit that I preferred the "old" new one. Really can't put my finger on why.

I'm interested in the impact on users when one changes things several times quickly like this. Anybody here that has knowledge/experience that would like to say a few words about it. Personally I always am annoyed by change, more so when things seem to change "all the time". Anybody have some actual statistics on how people reacted to this type of design changes?

There's a certain percentage of the population that always prefers the "old one." People don't like change.

bingo

They're trying to gradually put me onto GoogleBook instead of being on the search homepage.

screens and resolutions are getting larger. unless it's for mobile screen, i don't see the need to get rid of it. perhaps they based that on some UX statistics, but doesn't make much sense to me.

Great news. I already dedicated a key on my keyboard to open that menu.

As usual, apps users don't get it straight off :(

How does this work on a touch interface?

I approve, the new design makes more sense like that, the black nav-bar seemed out of place. I still don't have it yet and wonder how the homepage looks like? (Google.com)

http://www.google.com/help/hc/images/accounts/accounts_17144...

Thanks. I think they should have taken more liberality with the space there.

That menu isn't expanded by default. This is a mouseover example.

It is expanded by default on the Search page.

ew. they should have just gotten rid of it, reverted to the classic look without any bar at all on the homepage.

and google lost focus.

not because is has too many products. heck no! but because it's wasting more time trying to be a ... for a lack of a new term let's use the old one: "portal"

name all companies that lost focus and became "portals" in the past. all of them wasted a lot of time on the top-$sitename-bar right before it reached the point of no return.

I'm really quite sick of Google nowadays. I don't want any of this new stuff they have been introducing.

These people are obsessed with social.

It is terrible. Why one more click? Why change something that works? Google keep changing things... That don't really matter.

For the record, it's not one more click. If you hover over the dropdown, it brings the menu up.

I think it would be fair to say it's two mouse actions though. Clicking takes no time; moving the mouse to the link in the first place takes some. Moving first to the Google logo, then to the app, would take longer. Sort of like eliminating the task bar in favor of the start menu - personally I use the task bar far more frequently, and keep often launched programs pinned so I can avoid the second mouse action cost.

One click still actually it expands onhover.

If it doesn't really matter... why is it terrible?

The 'new' toolbar is higher than the black one, taking up more space, every site seems to transition to those sticking toolbars that do not go away when I scroll down. It's not about content anymore, it's about navigation and sharing. The toolbars from 10 years ago you could actually deinstall, this one unavoidable.

And this 'save a click' argument is just silly. Hover still means you have to target two points.

What's is funny though, the Google-bar at the bottom would at least make sense on a chromebook, but at the top they always suck, because contrary to an OS taskbar, they don't provide an invinite mouse target because of the Tab-bar.

> The 'new' toolbar is higher than the black one, taking up more space

It takes less space, since it also includes the search box.

Where is the extra click? Menu is exposed on roll-over, clicking on logo is not required.

Cognitive dissonance and lack of visual cues, yes, but not an extra click.

Oh no. Oh HELL no. In keeping with the new look of Google Docs, Reader etc., they've added an extra 40px of useless, un-necessary vertical padding to the bar. While their intro video criticises the old bar for wasting precious screen real estate, this new bar wastes more than twice as much of it.

I hope that some day soon they wake up and realise that screen real-estate shouldn't be wasted the way they're doing. As it stands, the only way I can now use Reader is by Greasemonkeying the hell out of its stylesheets; on my small laptop screen, many of the rest of Google's services are now all but unusable for me. This "stylistic cohesion" that they're aiming for is driving me away from every Google product out there.

Not really. Currently there's the black navbar AND the product specific search. This change is making the current product specific search the universal navbar, so at the end of it you've stilled gained the space occupied by the black nav bar.

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