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Comment by nrp | Hacker News Reader

I'm happy to answer questions anyone has on this product!

Hey there, just wanted to share my experience with you. I've used Macbooks for the past like 6 years for programming, after several jobs in Silicon Valley required it. Apple has been pretty much okay except for some key issues around memory consumption and overheating.

After they hit a supply line issue earlier this year, I decided to try getting a Framework instead.

Been using my Framework laptop for a month or so now consistently for heavy programming work, and it is the best machine I've ever had. Thank you! It also was the catalyst to get me into using Linux (Ubuntu) which has been a huge blessing beyond what I expected.

I posted a photo of myself at a coffee shop to a Discord group, and someone saw the corner of the laptop. They asked "Is that a Macbook I see?" and I explained to them "Nah it's a Framework" and shared the link. Didn't really expect much beyond that, but actually they loved it. Several people looked at it and said "Wow! This sounds amazing! Actually... going to save this for later..."

Having just bought a Framework to replace my 5-year-old XPS, I really hope I have the same experience as you. Do you run Linux, by the way? I hope Linux support is good.

Same here, make sure you use a very recent distro/kernel for 12th gen support.

I'm using 12th gen processor, latest versions of Ubuntu and Linux

  Ubuntu: Ubuntu 22.04.1 LTS
  Linux: 5.17.0-051700-generic

The only problems I've had so far is the "brightness" fn keys don't work, and bluetooth isn't great with certain devices like Airpods.

The brightness keys isn't a big deal, can still set brightness in the OS. It's probably fixable through some manual keymapping.

Bluetooth is more annoying but I somehow doubt it's a hardware issue. I just ended up getting Sony wireless earbuds to complete my transition away from Apple.

That being said, I also tried to dual boot Windows. Windows really does not like the hardware, and the Framework driver install package (https://knowledgebase.frame.work/en_us/framework-laptop-bios...) had limited effect in fixing the issues. Lots of bugs with audio and graphics.

So, for now I would say it is too premature for Windows, but great for Linux!

I had the same problem, the solution is here: https://community.frame.work/t/12th-gen-not-sending-xf86monb...

You can enable the hotkey support by blacklisting the hid-sensor-hub driver: vi /etc/modprobe.d/framework-als-blacklist.conf Add the following: blacklist hid-sensor-hub And then restart

It worked, but it needed `hid_sensor_hub` with underscores! and `sudo update-initramfs -u` before the reboot

Just got around to trying this and it worked. Thank you!

I would be interested in understanding what issues you are seeing on Windows. We do quite a bit of validation on Windows.

A sibling comment shared the fix for the brightness keys, but you can also grab that information from our setup guide for Ubuntu: https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Ubuntu+22.04+LTS+Installatio...

Thanks for the reply! Your own forums may be a great place to start. There are some open issues for this, some you have seen and some unanswered

https://community.frame.work/t/audio-issues-windows-11/11726

https://community.frame.work/t/windows-no-audio-output-devic...

https://community.frame.work/t/windows-11-audio-no-longer-wo...

Hi, I saw your comment about Bluetooth issues with your AirPods, and I wanted to let you know that I have been having great success using my AirPods after I swapped out Pulseaudio for Pipewire on my System76 lemur pro laptop running PopOS. I think Ubuntu is planning to migrate from Pulseaudio to Pipewire as the default sound server, but maybe they haven’t done it yet. Anyway, this might be something you want to try. I use them for zoom meetings 1-2 hours every day, and they are extremely reliable.

I see! It appears Ubuntu 22 has both Pulseaudio and Pipewire installed, and Pulseaudio is set to the default, with Pipewire just not enabled. Will poke around at it. Maybe they're making some incremental transition still.

Thanks for the tip

Ubuntu 22.04 works out of the box with no issues so far.

My Arch on Framework experience has been great. If you're just getting yours up and running, I've been keeping notes on tuning/setup: https://github.com/lhl/linuxlaptops/wiki/2022-Framework-Lapt...

Some people have been getting hard graphics lockups (seems to be an Intel 12th-gen GPU / GNOME issue that may be affecting more than just the Frameworks). I'm running Sway and have yet to have any lockups over a month and a half of usage, though. Here's the community discussion thread: https://community.frame.work/t/hard-freezing-on-fedora-36-wi...

That writeup is extensive, thank you for taking the time!

Got one under Ubuntu 22.04. My only issue is that some transitions are frustratingly slow, much moreso than on my 2014 XPS13:

* Getting out of sleep (deep RAM sleep, not hibernate)

* Handling password/fingerprint authentication once out of sleep

* Wifi rescan frequency

* Occasionally, plugging/unplugging external screens

And I've got no idea why. Once woken up and plugged to whatever I need to use, it's a really good laptop.

And then everybody clapped

I'm a huge chromebook fan actually -- but my current one is looking a tad unsupported (pixel slate)

I've been considering a framework as a replacement actually!

One of the things I really care about is battery life + sleep performance.

The article mentions:

> .* At the same time, the Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition is our most power efficient product yet with optimizations from Google and Intel that allow for long-lasting battery life.

Can you provide some numbers around the battery life improvements? Sounds exciting! (And are these going to be backported to the normal 12th gen boards, or is it a feature of the unique mainboard/not firmware?)

Can you speak to the OS image as well? Is there any non-upstream drivers that are relied on? I notice lots of chromebooks have drivers that aren't in the regular upstream kernel, but just in the chromiumos source. I'm hoping that I could eventually swap OS' if needed w/o getting a new mainboard, and want to see how viable that is.

Thanks for the hard work, and in advance for the questions!

(P.S. like everyone else, AMD would be exciting if you don't know that :p)

[edit] one of my biggest disappointments in my slate is that it never received vm-in-vm support with the newer kernel. Is /dev/kvm available in the linux container? I _think_ that goes hand in hand with the steam supuport, but not sure

Google has fairly strict requirements around power consumption. They have a standard test for 10 hours of active use through common use cases, which we were able to meet. For standby, the requirement is around 14 days. I have to double check where we are on the current software and firmware, but we are close to that number.

We actually did learn some things about the Intel re-timers through this product development that let us come up with ways to improve the behavior on the regular 12th Gen Framework Laptops. We are currently developing a firmware update for that that will improve both active and standby battery life.

> We actually did learn some things about the Intel re-timers through this product development that let us come up with ways to improve the behavior on the regular 12th Gen Framework Laptops. We are currently developing a firmware update for that that will improve both active and standby battery life.

Is this specific to Intel's 12th gen or can it also be ported to the 11th gen? I have an 11th gen Framework and am delighted with everything about the laptop except for battery life. If that could be improved, I would have absolutely no complaints whatsoever about the laptop.

We do have some learnings that would apply back to 11th Gen that are early in development. We also have a beta firmware for DisplayPort Expansion Cards that improves one area of active/standby power consumption, which applies to both 11th Gen and 12th Gen: https://community.frame.work/t/beta-displayport-expansion-ca...

This is awesome news. Excited the collaboration will have some nice side effects.

Traditional chromebooks are fairly locked down, and make it difficult (and scary) to install an alternate operating system alongside ChromeOS, for users that want a bit more power. What is the situation like on the Framework edition? How open is the bootloader, and how tricky is it to enter (and stay in) developer mode?

The bootloader situation is the same as other Chromebooks. It is totally possible to get into and stay in developer mode to do what you would like with the system. In practice, doing things outside of ChromeOS depends on how robust community-driven development ends up around that.

I recommend you send one to MrChromebox: https://mrchromebox.tech/#devices

Apologies for the direct question, but I've wondered, how does this make sense for your business? Chromebooks have typically been seen as cheap versions of laptops but Frameworks is priced above the average Chromebook price.

Is there a sense that there is an untapped 'premium' chromebook audience or will this make sense even without that. Perhaps you're looking for large/discounted partnerships with educational organizations?

It's a valid question. Since there are few to no current products in this segment, we really are testing it. We get to do tests like this much more efficiently than most because we can leverage our existing modular product and build just new modules needed for it.

I am (personally) a bit disappointed that you'd work on a Chromebook version first, before tackling AMD or a version with a dedicated GPU.

I'll need a new laptop soon, and would really love to see either and ideally both of those.

But for the company it's probably a good move. Get help from Google on battery optimisations, open up a new market and hopefully get a sizeable order from Google directly, all without a crazy amount of re-engineering...

I'm not GP, but tackling AMD or a dedicated GPU sounds like a ton more work than Chromebook. Plus Google partnered with them, so presumably helped with some of the work. I would guess this effort didn't really take all that much, but it allowed them to try a new bet that might pay off, and establish a potentially useful partnership. I too would rather a dedicated GPU and/or AMD option, but I care as much for the health of the company as I do for the product offering (since frame.work failing or changing would be a tragic loss) so this seems like a reasonable shot to take. I really hope it works!

Exactly this. Offering AMD or dGPU is a whole other level of engineering, supply chain, and support effort. Google itself may also be good for a few thousand orders, just from all their now orphaned Pixelbook users. And presumably that’s still a tangible amount of sales for a company the size of Framework. Plus they apparently already found some power management improvements that will also apply to all their laptops, just by getting their devices ChromeOS ready. Actually seems like an excellent business decision.

Google employees have been switching to HP Dragonfly chromebooks but that may be back ordered now, so I could see many of us requesting the framework if it's made available internally. I'm going to see if I can get Google to allocate me one of these framework Chromebooks, and if not, I will purchase one on my own.

how do you know they're not doing that behind the scenes? anytime this issue comes up, a framework rep doesn't say anything.

you could gamble that they are and get the 11th gen intel kit, then upgrade once (if) an amd kit is released. or wait and see.

Did your partners at Google give you any indication of how successful their ~£1300 Pixelbook Go i7 [1] was?

[1] https://www.johnlewis.com/google-pixelbook-go-ga00526-uk-lap...

It seems unlikely that they would be able to share that information publicly, even if they did have it.

I can only imagine how much fun it was for you all to build and ship these :)

There was a lot of love for the original Pixelbook, so I'm sure it will be an exciting prospect for many.

There's perception and then there's reality.

While cheap Chromebooks abound, the market for Chromebooks has matured significantly and a lot of vendors offer high quality 'premium' solutions that really meet people's needs, while typically costing less than say Apple's offerings. Framework is jumping on that bandwagon.

There are some other premium Chromebooks. Google started things off with the Pixelbook, which it appears they are now discontinuing. HP and Samsung have produced some high end Chromebooks.

They're a niche market: C-level executives at companies that use Chromebooks, developers at those companies, Linux fans who will mostly use the Chromebook to run Linux apps. They make more economic sense as an adaptation of a laptop that is already being sold for other markets rather than as a dedicated product.

The Pixelbook line never did enough volume for Google to make money on it. It was a proof of concept, a way of showing that a Chromebook didn't have to just mean a low end and cheaply built Acer or the like, but could be something that higher end users would happily use and not be ashamed to be seen with when they do a presentation. Now that other companies are making premium Chromebooks, there is no longer a need for Google to produce them.

I'm comparing this with the 12-gen DIY offerings, and it seems like it's mostly the low-end configuration of the DIY with ChromeOS installed. The FAQ says there are some subtle differences like louder speakers and a "more power optimized battery". Can you clarify what "more power optimized" means (a rather vague statement as the specs page suggests the same capacity and durability)?

I noticed the 256GB of storage is different from the DIY options. I'm guessing this is driven by hardware support limitations for ChromeOS. I'm wondering if the same is true with the RAM.

The FAQ also says you can add memory and storage later, but I noticed the FAQ mentions "We recommend using modules from Google’s Chromebook compatibility lists, which can be viewed in our Knowledge Base, and are available for purchase on the Framework Marketplace." I didn't find that compatibility list anywhere in the Knowledge Base, but I did find this post (https://community.frame.work/t/introducing-the-framework-lap...) which seems to suggest you can upgrade to 64GB of RAM and 1TB of NVMe storage, though it's not clear if that's using parts that are on Google's compatibility list or not. Can you provide any clarity on this?

The power optimizations are in the Mainboard electrical design, firmware, and OS, and improve both standby and in-use efficiency. The battery itself is identical to the one in other Framework Laptops.

On the storage, we use Western Digital SN730 and SN740 drives, which are also what we put in the pre-built Framework Laptops. These are roughly equivalent to the SN750 and SN770 retail drives, respectively.

On the memory and storage, ChromeOS technically has an allow-list for memory and storage, though in practice we have seen modules not on the list work fine. We'll be adding that list onto the Knowledge Base. We will be making parts that are on the list available in the Framework Marketplace for guaranteed compatibility (the memory we already have, and we'll be introducing SN730/SN740 storage up to 1TB).

> The power optimizations are in the Mainboard electrical design, firmware, and OS, and improve both standby and in-use efficiency.

It'd be nice to see improvements in the mainboard of the standard laptops as well. I imagine, in theory, much of the firmware and OS improvements could be installed on one of them already.

> On the storage, we use Western Digital SN730 and SN740 drives, which are also what we put in the pre-built Framework Laptops.

Ah, now I see it. The pre-built one has 256GB & 512GB options that the DIY ones don't have. I'm always amused by how specs differ between OEM and non-OEM parts.

> On the memory and storage, ChromeOS technically has an allow-list for memory and storage, though in practice we have seen modules not on the list work fine. We'll be adding that list onto the Knowledge Base. We will be making parts that are on the list available in the Framework Marketplace for guaranteed compatibility (the memory we already have, and we'll be introducing SN730/SN740 storage up to 1TB).

Awesome. Thanks. These were really helpful answers. As feedback, I'd say it would be nice to be able to select different starting memory options in particular, but this is a really great offering.

I'm very interested in the contours of this relationship with Google.

- What kind of commitments did each party make to each other?

- Did Google request anything of Framework? What requests did Framework agree to? Which did they deny?

- What differentiates this product from the normal offering?

1. Does this come with CoreBoot and the jumper/screw to unlock CoreBoot like other Chromebooks?

2. Does this come with the silly Chromebook keyboard that is missing two keys on the left side? If it does, is it compatible with the normal keyboard part?

3. When will you bring a motherboard with an AMD APU?

I have a 11th gen frame.work.

1. Could I swap mainboards to upgrade the 11th gen framework to the chromebook version? 2. Is the coreboot chip flashable with custom firmware? / Is the boot process locked?

This might well be the mainboard I've been waiting for. Congratulations on shipping this!

Also curious about this. If the mainboards are compatible (especially if they’re usable outside the laptop like the current ones are) this is very interesting.

This is what I want.

I noted this in another comment, but that mainboard swap should work. You'll likely need a Chromebook-specific Input Cover and Webcam for full functionality though, and this is an upgrade path we have done limited validation effort on thus far.

When switched into developer mode, it should be possible to update and customize firmware. There is a pretty active community for Chromebook firmware customization out there.

Could you say anything about how the webcam is different between the 2 models?

Is it possible for me to purchase a Framework Chromebook and swap the regular keyboard into it?

I'm in the same place. I would love to upgrade mine to chrome os just for the battery life.

Curious if this will support Chromium OS or only Chrome OS?

I'd also love to learn more about the motivation to create this laptop and the target audiences!

It's Chrome OS proper

How long will Google support ChromeOS on this machine? What alternative OSes will it run?

Edit: the article says “receives automatic updates for up to eight years” but an upper bound isn’t so helpful here.

Google is committed to a minimum of 8 years of security updates. We don't have currently have official support for other OS's, but there is an active community of people bringing other OS's to Chromebooks.

sounds like the page should say "at least eight years" then, instead of "up to eight years"

What's more likely, Google break their commitment or they provide extra patches past their commitment.

In case of doubt you can always replace the OS with whatever Linux distribution you choose, which only leaves closed-source driver/fw blobs - but that problem is shared with every other general-purpose computer these days.

A specific date would be better, because otherwise it’s ambiguous. Eight years starting when?

Google provides specific support dates on its Pixel and Chromebook devices. For instance, under "About ChromeOS", mine says, "This device will get automatic software and security updates until 2027."

https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?visit_id=...

No because that is based on date of release not of purchase.

If you purchase a brand new chromebook whose model has been sold for 3 years already you won't get 8 years of support.

Correct. We've just updated the blog post with the proper description from Google, which is "automatic updates through June 2030."

Is that after release or after the last sale of the model?

With Chromebooks, that would be after release.

Why this over getting an AMD laptop? After the terrible experience of going back to Intel, I doubt I'll ever bother with an Intel laptop ever again. Is Intel giving benefits to ensure you don't support AMD?

Yes. This is why I don't really buy all this talk of Intel is "dead and finished" and will "fade away" in the next 5 year ... Even though Intel has an inferior product to AMD, they are really good at selling their product and don't mind indulging in unethical (or even illegal) market practices to do so. They still have a lot of money and they use it well to undercut their competitors. AMD shines in technical competence against both Intel and Apple, but is weaker than both when it comes to marketing and selling their product.

I think it is more complex than that. AMD uses TSMC foundaries to make their chips and has to compete with nVidia and Apple for capacity. Intel can guarentee their yields because they own their foundaries.

This is old news. AMD has since cancelled orders because of GPU sales falling off a cliff. They have enough for Framework, if Framework wants to jump on to make something

I don't work for Framework, but my guess is that AMD doesn't make a chip with powerful enough IO controllers to operate the Framework. It's a shame, because I also like the Ryzen mobile chipset, but even the M1 wouldn't have enough IO bandwidth to drive 4x Thunderbolt 4 ports at full speed. Love them or hate them, this is part of the Intel 'package' that you're paying for.

Besides, now is a terrible time to start offering AMD laptops. You want them to drop a 6000-series laptop when the next-gen mobile Ryzen chips were announced less than a month ago? Have some patience!

> next-gen mobile Ryzen chips were announced less than a month ago

Technically the only mobile Ryzen chips announced so far are based on Zen 2 which is about to become two generations old. Expect "next-gen" mobile chip announcements in January.

(The recent Zen 4 announcements have been for desktop parts.)

You're right, I missed that. Still, my point stands :p

5000 and 6000 mobile chips are Zen 3 with some skus that are Zen 2. The 6000 series mobile chips with Zen 3 and RDNA 2 are available today and are excellent.

Yes - to clarify, some mobile 7020 chips were recently announced, but they are Zen 2 based (as evidenced by the third digit.) I just wanted to be clear that no "next-gen" (i.e. Zen 4) mobile 7000 chips have been announced.

Well technically the Zen 4 mobile parts have been announced, as AMD officially published their 2023 mobile lineup a couple weeks ago: https://community.amd.com/t5/corporate/announcing-new-model-...

Here's the segmentation:

* Mendocino (Ryzen 7020 Series) - Everyday Computing

* Barcelo-R (Ryzen 7030 Series) - Mainstream Thin & Light

* Rembrandt-R (Ryzen 7035 Series) - Premium Thin & Light

* Phoenix Point (Ryzen 7040 Series) - Elite Ultrathin

* Dragon Range (Ryzen 7045 Series) - Extreme Gaming & Creator

But the product "launch" will, as you mention, likely take place at CES next year.

One thing worth noting is that basically, even now (almost 10 months post announcement), almost no one has a 6000U laptop outs (a search on Amazon and Best Buy shows two 6800U laptop models total, one Asus and one Lenovo). Two niche vendors, XMG and Star Labs, have both publicly stated that they would have loved to have offered Ryzen 6000 laptops, but couldn't get any allotments. There are were also well documented chipset issues - even into the summer Lenovo and Asus talked about requiring firmware updates to enable their USB4 ports.

That being said, starting w/ Rembrandt, AMD now has full 40Gbps USB4 controllers built on-chip. I'm really looking forward to Ryzen 7040 because Phoenix looks great (Zen4 + RDNA3 on TSMC N4 - yes please) and hopefully USB4 support has matured enough on the AMD side that Framework is able to release something.

My understanding is that the I/O limitation is in the re-timers - currently the Framework uses 4X JHL8040R's (labeled as Burnside Bridge) directly connected to the iTBT: https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Mainboard/blob/main/Ele... Apple used these for their first M1 MBAs as well: https://github.com/ThomasKaiser/Knowledge/blob/master/articl...

But both Apple and AMD are now using Kandou retimers:

* https://www.gizchina.com/2022/07/25/apple-completely-got-rid...

* https://kandou.com/matterhorn.html

* https://kandou.com/assets/downloads/product-briefs/KB8001-Pr...

Is the hardware any different? If not, why sell this as a separate machine instead of providing a ChromeOS image that can be installed to a standard Framework?

According to the article:

> we’ve partnered with ChromeOS because of their commitment to long-lasting speed and transparency. The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition is built with the Titan C security chip and receives automatic updates for up to eight years, all to keep your Chromebook fast and secure.

Sibling comment got it correct, but worth noting that you can install ChromeOS Flex on a regular Framework Laptop. It won't have the same level of optimization that the Chromebook Edition has, and Google only has functionality like the Android Play Store enabled on Chromebooks. https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/chrome-enterprise/chr...

I believe it comes with a lower-end CPU compared to the standard Framework, and also includes a builtin Titan C security chip.

The Chromebook version has a different keyboard than the regular one. Like most Chromebooks, it only has a large control and alt key in the bottom left. Plus no caps lock, you get a search key instead I think.

Thank you so much for making a keyboard without a Windows key and for selling it separately as well. The product page says it’s only compatible with the Chromebook edition though, does this just mean the function keys won’t be mapped or that it won’t work at all?

The Chromebook Edition keyboard will work on a regular Framework Laptop. It is just physically missing the fn and Win/super keys and has fn row artwork that won't match.

Does it have another key in its place? The Windows key is one of my favorite things about Linux in a desktop/laptop machine: a key that isn't used by any applications, which I can dedicate entirely towards window management, without worrying that it will conflict with any application key bindings.

What’s the difference from original?

ChromeOS! Specifically, the Mainboard is custom-designed for ChromeOS. This means it uses coreboot instead of a proprietary BIOS and has Google's Titan C security chip.

There are some other smaller differences. To keep the cost down, the top cover is aluminum-formed instead of CNCed, for compatibility reasons we weren't able to bring our fingerprint module in, and we were able to improve both audio quality and speaker loudness with an improved audio CODEC and louder transducers.

Interesting - does this mean it'll be possible to create a Coreboot edition of the original Framework motherboard design, or is that capability related to Titan C?

It is technically possible to, and we've provided development systems to a few coreboot developers. This is something we'll be putting more energy into next year as we grow the Framework team.

That's wonderful to hear! I'm very excited about where Framework is going these days.

System76 have done work on enabling CoreBoot support on several laptops (which AFAICT are rebranded and certified versions of ODM whitelabel devices).

Would any collaboration with them regarding CoreBoot be helpful/desirable/possible/planned/etc. ?

Bummer just bought one was very not pleased to find “intel vpro corporate” force enabled in the firmware.

> coreboot instead of a proprietary BIOS and has Google's Titan C security chip

This is what I was hoping when I got the announcement via email. The question is if this will be locked down to chromeos or if it's possible to install your own keys to load a linux distro while still retaining verified boot capabilities.

I believe all Chromebooks are capable of having custom keys installed.

> To keep the cost down, the top cover is aluminum-formed instead of CNCed

Forging is in no way inferior to CNC, on the contrary, a forget aluminium part should have more rigidity per unit of thickness, depending on the alloy.

I guess, you got to volumes big enough to open the mould for forging?

If you need an audio engineer, I can refer you one fellow. He worked at Apple, Harman, Asus, BBK, and is now looking to relocated from the East Bloc.

He meant formed not forged.

The formed top covers are thick aluminium foils that are folded by machines.

They did show signs of lack of rigidity in the usage of the laptops (it was shipped with the first Framework laptops, and later replaced by CNC for this very reason).

Will it be possible to buy and use these new audio components to improve a standard FrameWork?

In the Markeplace I can see the new speakers but not the new audio board (or is the codec actually on the motherboard?).

Can you elaborate what you mean with improved audio quality? My headphone jack on the 12th gen. (batch 1) model has a constant loud static/white noise which is very audible when listening to music even at max volume.

FYI — I emailed your support team and was told the Chromebook did have a fingerprint reader. Which surprised me because I hadn't see it on the product page at https://frame.work/products/laptop-chromebook-12-gen-intel

They pointed me to this /gb/en/ url, which has the same chromebook slug but seems to just describe the regular 12th gen laptop: https://frame.work/gb/en/laptop-chromebook-12-gen-intel

So to be clear, no fingerprint reader for the Chromebook? Any chance of adding that in the future?

First of all I'm very much on board with ideas behind framework laptop. Thanks for your work :-)

Is there any roadmap for wider distribution in Europe? Especially eastern part.

I'll piggy bag this, and say "especially for the Scandinavian ISO keyboard" part.

it's not a real solution, but one can always use a forwarder to ship it from the US (that's what I did)

> Framework began with the goal to remake consumer electronics to respect people

Do you honestly believe Google respects people?

What measures have you put in place to mitigate Google's surveillance of its users?

Is there a chance of a hinge offering 2 in 1 capabilities? I.E. full fold back to tablet mode?

+1 for 360° hinge and touch/stylus digitizer

I would suggest adding information about the display panel on your website. I could not find anywhere whether it's IPS or not.

Are there plans to adopt the camera/mic switches for future Windows/Linux laptops?

They already have them.

So they do!

I couldn't find any marketing material pointing out the switches on the originals, so I assumed this was a change for the Chromebooks. But you're right, I managed to find an image of a Framework laptop where the switches are visible.

They are there currently! All Framework Laptops have hardware privacy switches for the camera and microphones.

Will this support Linux on ChromeOS (Crostini)?

The ChromeOS doc page "Set Up Linux on your Chromebook" [0] links to a supported models list [1] which does NOT include Framework.

[0] https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439?hl=en

[1] https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/chromium-os/chro...

Looks like a yes: "...you can multitask with ease on top of running heavy Chrome workloads. ChromeOS supports downloading Android™ apps from the Google Play Store, developing on Linux with Crostini, playing PC games with Steam on ChromeOS Alpha, and more."

source: https://community.frame.work/t/introducing-the-framework-lap...

Maybe the support sites will get updated to include Frame.Work

Beyond laptops / more speculative - are there other hardware devices you'd be curious about branching out to some day? AR/VR headsets, robotics, servers for rendering/ML on the edge, etc.?

Will this support Android apps from Google play? If so, could this ChromeOS build be installed on a normal framework? Reason I ask is that ChromeOS flex doesn't support Android apps.

Would an ARM-based mainboard variant be a possibility down the line?

I'd also love to see a RISC-V variant at some point when it makes sense.

I'd rather wait for a RISC-V variant than waste any of my time with ARM.

It is truly unfortunate that an ARM-based variant isn't available.

When you don't care about single-core performance and compatibility, there really isn't much reason to use x86 at all. For me personally, my priority is by far battery-life (and LTE support is a nice bonus).

I'm refraining from using Framework until they get an ARM device out to replace my current ARM chromebook (Acer Chromebook Spin 513, my NixOS configuration: https://github.com/L-as/NixOS-lazor)

Lazor's SOC has 1 internal type C port and it was a pain to transform that to 2 external ports via a HUB and complicated muxes.

There really isn't any other performant ARM chip that has more ports, enough to work in a framework 4 port type situation.

If we want to go beyond DP alt mode into USB 4 you could forget it.

With Coreboot and the ChromeOS Linux kernel running well on the device, how much would it take to release a Framework Laptop Linux Edition based on the Chromebook mainboard, but with a standard keyboard and somewhat optimized for a pre-installed Linux distribution?

I would imagine that regular Linux won't do as well as ChromeOS in terms of battery life, but perhaps still considerably better than the Windows mainboard+firmware.

This is potentially a very attractive replacement for my Pixelbook.

What is the battery life when running Chrome OS?

If I wanted to, could I later put a full Linux or Windows in some sort of dual boot?

They answered battery life questions here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32927094, and bootloader questions here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32926689 (it's possible to install other OSs, but depends on community support, it's not official)

Bit late to the party, I'm in Tasmania and was up a mountain doing various things.

I work in metal fabrication (tradesperson) and run a laser cutter as my full time job, and have an interest in most things metallurgical.

Are you able to talk about the 50% post-consumer recycled aluminium. What were the pros / cons of 50% rather than higher or lower percentages.

What was your process in deciding to pursue this and bring the product to market?

How did you see the niche and do you still see it the same way now it is here?

What do you consider to be the value proposition for potential customers of this product?

What is your assessment of the TAM?

Do you have limits on how many differentiated products you are willing to pursue simultaneously in the market?

Can the motherboard be purchased separately in order to transform an existing Framework laptop into a Framework Chromebook?

Technically, yes! You may also need the Chromebook-specific Input Cover and Webcam though for full functionality.

Are those the only hardware differences from a regular Framework?

Didn’t google make a version of ChromeOS that can be installed on a lot of regular laptops? Seems to me it’s possible there may not be any hardware difference between the Chromebook edition and other Framework laptops.

The Chromebook edition is based on the "brya" motherboard design shared by other Chromebooks with 12th gen Intel processors, so it won't be the same as the usual 12th gen Framework board. You can install Chrome OS Flex on the standard Framework mainboard, though; I think earlier commenters have provided more detail.

Can you provide more information about why the fingerprint module was excluded [0]?

I've grown to rely on Windows Hello / Mac FaceID. It's disappointing not to have a bio metric option.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32926574

Would love to see https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=980456 get fixed on ChromeOS. Then I could use my e-reader and Calibre via crostini.

What components from the main Framework laptop are compatible with this version? i.e. keyboard/display

We have compatibility filters in the Marketplace to indicate what is compatible. Technically, every module is compatible, but some will turn it into not a Chromebook. For example, you can drop a regular Framework Laptop Mainboard or Input Cover into it.

Keeping it as a Chromebook with ChromeOS, there are specific firmwares required for the Touchpad and Webcam that required us to create variants. The Fingerprint Module we have is also not compatible with ChromeOS.

Are there any learnings from the touchpad work that will come back to the regular laptop?

Are other language kb variants planned?

We have "Register your interest" set up for other countries currently. Depending on how much interest there is, this is something we will consider as we go forward.

Are there plans to develop a touchscreen and a tablet mode for the the framework? And if so, can we at least re-use some of the existing parts, other than the mainboard?

I understand if you can't make promises here, I'm also on a product team :)

This and other products: are AMD or ARM CPUs planned? I'm hesitant to obtain a Framework Laptop due to intel CPUs.

Is it possible to get the Chrome OS version one of these with a super/win key like on the standard version?

Or at the very least, can the normal keyboard part be installed afterwards?

Any chance of it getting sold in the EU?

How's battery life during the ChromeOS equivalent of sleep/suspend/hibernate?

as someone who has been using chromebooks for years, I'm really excited for this!

1. do you have any plans to provide expansion cards for ltr/5g connectivity?

2. do you have any plans to provide more memory for chromebook edition?

What is the size of the screen? Can't find it on the page.

Can you set a battery charge limit on the chromeOS firmware?

There is some effort here—see chrome://flags#adaptive-charging at https://www.aboutchromebooks.com/news/chromeos-105-release-a....

I wish you success and I hope the collaboration with google was financially rewarding but end of the day everything that doesn't work out would mentally hurt and thereby reduce chances of future successes. I would request you to kindly focus!

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