Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update | Hacker News Reader

Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update

blogs.windows.com

52 pointsvarun_ch106 comments

Still can't choose to "never combine" taskbar buttons, like in previous Windows versions. That's a major usability flaw.

Ive used "When taskbar is full" for years. "never combine" seems to be an anti-pattern, as you'd be forced to scroll your taskbar with too many windows.

First, would you really want that? and second, why do you have so many windows open, that this is becoming a problem? if you hide search, I think you can get about 8 non-collapsed windows. do you really need more than that?

Ah yes, the typical "you must be using this new awful feature wrong" response.

Why don't you give the OP some respect and don't assume they don't know what they want?

yes, many more

No scrolling

I don’t want to have to click twice to bring up a window from the taskbar, ever. It’s not that hard to understand.

To be pedantic, it doesn't require two clicks. You can hover and then click on the one you want.

I hover over a group to get the previews of the windows in that group, then click the one I want. Just one click in the whole process, though I do understand if you see the half second or so wait after hovering as bad as having to click.

>> I hover over a group to get the previews of the windows in that group, then click the one I want.

I prefer "Never combine" so that I don't have to spend any time hovering and waiting.

I think you can get about 8 non-collapsed windows.

My taskbar fits 28 windows before scrolling happens. It gets a bit unwieldy after the first 12, and eventually, titles will no longer be displayed.

do you really need more than that?

Yes.

>> "never combine" seems to be an anti-pattern

For me anything other than "Never combine" is an anti-pattern. Every application instance should have its own taskbar button that I can identify by looking at it.

>> if you hide search, I think you can get about 8 non-collapsed windows. do you really need more than that?

I have a huge ultra-wide monitor. I can easily get 20+ non-collapsed window buttons on the taskbar. Combined taskbar window buttons waste my time and impair my productivity.

I don't think either approach is an anti-pattern - different use cases will be useful for different users. I've found combining application instances to be quite useful since I use a lot of applications with no internal instance switching (PuTTY is the biggest offender here) but to each their own. This setting being a setting just felt like a good idea.

>> I don't think either approach is an anti-pattern - different use cases will be useful for different users.

That's why I prefaced it with 'for me'.

Other people can use works best for them. I know what works best for me.

In my personal lexicon "anti-pattern" is a pretty universal term - X isn't an anti-pattern for Alice but not Bob - it's either an anti-pattern for everyone or it isn't an anti-pattern.

So I think in my comment above I mostly just automatically omitted the "for me" when reading your original remark.

>> In my personal lexicon "anti-pattern" is a pretty universal term - X isn't an anti-pattern for Alice but not Bob - it's either an anti-pattern for everyone or it isn't an anti-pattern.

I agree.

svnpenn's comment characterized "Never combine" as an anti-pattern, but it is my preferred configuration.

Perhaps it would have been more accurate to just say that "Never combine" is not an anti-pattern since many users prefer it for various reasons.

People using a feature differently from how you would, doesn't makes it an anti pattern.

> First, would you really want that? Yep. I was forced to buy StartAllBack, just to be able to use "Never Combine" in Windows 11

> and second, why do you have so many windows open, that this is becoming a problem? if you hide search, I think you can get about 8 non-collapsed windows. do you really need more than that?

Because people have different ways of working. I have 32 gb RAM in my laptop and at any time I have dozens of windows open. I have dozens of browser tabs open at the same time as well. When I am at work, I open each mail that I want to look at later, in a window by double clicking it in Outlook. And then later on, resolving each one by one.

If I have 2 file explorer windows open, why wouldn't I want to 2 icons so I can quickly switch between them? Combining only makes sense if you have an unmanageable number of Windows open.

But then I'm probably the ultimate outlier: I have my Win10 taskbar configured Win95 style -- showing the full window title and one tab per window. I do not know why the "dock" style of desktop window navigation is so popular.

"When taskbar is full" is the same as "never combine", unless the taskbar is full

When is it full? With never combine the buttons just get smaller. I guess it eventually hits a limit and scrolls but I've not experienced that.

1, Slack; 2, Teams; 3, Outlook; 4, Perforce; 5, Visual Studio; 6, Emacs; 7, Command prompt; 8, Firefox...

Ran out already before even getting to File Locator Pro and File Explorer! - and this is the stuff I know I'll almost certainly be having open pretty much every day. I'll be running additional programs on top of these.

I usually have more than 1 command prompt, and more than 1 Firefox window.

Additionally, Visual Studio isn't decorative. I will actually be using it to work on a program of some kind. And when I run that program under the debugger, the program will need space in the task bar for its icon too.

I still wonder why "auto-expand taskbar when taskbar is full" isn't an option. Like isn't that the logical setup? If only one window or program is open, don't even have a taskbar. If twelve windows are open, have a taskbar tall enough for two rows of windows.

Yup, it is sadly still unusable without https://startallback.com/ :(

Got it! This is great for my productivity. So unfortunate that Microsoft didn’t even offer users an option…

This is the only major issue holding me back from upgrading. When you run 3-5 visual studios, couple of RDP connections, etc, having those windows in the taskbar is a big productivity booster.

I had to rollback simply because after a while, it felt slow and hard to manage multiple windows...

Who knew people like to run the same app more than once :|

I use StartAllBack for this, well for the $5 and has a free trial.

> having those windows in the taskbar is a big productivity booster

I sympathize with people that feel like this makes a big difference in productivity but you would have to be swapping between windows an absurd amount of times in a day for this to make an actual difference in productivity.

It takes (rough estimate) about an extra 200ms to hover the task bar icon and select the window you want.

So you lose a minute of time for every 300 times you do it. Doesn't add up to much unless you are switching windows hundreds or thousands of times a day.

Not to mention the fact that selecting icons from your taskbar isn't even the most efficient way of switching windows, which would be win+number or alt+tab.

Do you by any chance happen to be a Gnome developer?

Nope, not even a gnome enjoyer. More of an XFCE or KDE person.

Using the mouse at all is a distraction. Moving the mouse pointer, then waiting for something to happen, is bad design.

Glad you don't need it, but perhaps don't tell others they don't.

> perhaps don't tell others they don't.

Why not? I am not contesting that people like the feature, just contesting that it makes you measurably more productive.

I like how I can move the text cursor around on my iPhone by holding the spacebar down but if they removed that feature I am not going to be measurably less productive.

Grouped taskbar items only affect mouse users in the first place. Alt+Tab windows aren't grouped. Or at least, not on any version of Windows I've ever used, which admittedly doesn't include 11.

Not to mention the fact that selecting icons from your taskbar isn't even the most efficient way of switching windows, which would be win+number or alt+tab.

Not sure that's true in the setup under discussion: win+# requires figuring out which number to press - and if the count is wrong, I mind even end up on an entirely different desktop via some apps I keep pinned on the taskbar. And at the very least subjectively, alt-tab feels rather jarring and requires some mental re-adjustment before I find the proper window to click.

I actually printed out a sheet with the numbers for each icon position and stuck it on the monitor.

For pinned stuff you eventually remember the number for each app and switch quickly.

Have you had somebody time you doing this?

I'm not sure if this is the same thing, but there's a "feature" where if you hover over an open application on the taskbar, it will not only show its own open windows, but also a weird "combined" view of that application and whatever else happens to be nearby. So you might have both Notepad and Outlook open. Hover over Notepad, and you don't just see a preview of the open Notepad window, you also see this stupid "Notepad + Outlook" window.

It's completely useless and so frustrating. Sadly it's impossible to get rid of.

I also always use StartAllBack to fix a lot, but the fact that Microsoft is this stubborn and can't get why this is a usability problem for many actually pisses me off. How hard can it be to reinstate this officially? </tantrum>

They love hiding things and then calling "productivity." The system tray is one that has always historically annoyed me.. randomly hiding users icons inside of a menu that you have to know exists before you go to use it. Talking people through that on the phone was always a nightmare.

And now.. "taskbar overflow!" Even more hidden context to trip my users up and generate support calls. Thanks!

The lengthy blog post does not appear to include a download link; here's one to the new ISO image:

Download Windows 11 (Current release: Windows 11 2022 Update l Version 22H2) https://www.microsoft.com/software-download/windows11

which has a SHA256 sum of 5C69E6F486BC4BDAE91557DE161008458EAA40D40468C34DBBD9078952108D0A for the English edition (included for posterity, as Microsoft apparently no longer maintains a public database of Windows shasums for previous versions as it used to on TechNet[0]; a license to access Microsoft's VLSC[1] is now required).

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_TechNet

[1] https://www.microsoft.com/Licensing/servicecenter/default.as...

I'm honestly baffled by Microsoft's inconsistent way of both supporting and hindering people from installing Windows rather than just having to buy a machine with it pre-installed and then just update from that forever. They really seem to have some sort of internal disagreement over this; I can google to find a Windows ISO that they provide, but they won't give me the checksum (because I guess they want me to have to risk downloading a malicious version instead?). Then to install it, I might have to jump through some hoops in boot settings like Secure Boot and the like due to their pressure on the manufacturers, and I might not even be able to (like when I tried to buy an ARM laptop a few years ago only to find out that it essentially did not support booting of a flash drive at all), but once I get it installed, I can use it indefinitely without a license, and the only thing they disable is customizing my desktop background and window theme? Of course there's a permanent watermark in the corner to remind me (and anyone else who I share my screen with) that my Windows is unlicensed, but they'll make it dull enough that if I have anything other than a solid dark color behind it (i.e. not a game), it's basically invisible. It almost seems like they couldn't come to any agreement about how to transition from CD-based installs now that most laptops don't have CD drives, so their various teams just kind of do their own thing with no consistent policy coming from those in charge.

It hasn't been inconsistent since at least 8. They want you to use their media creation tool to get the installer instead of downloading an ISO from who knows where.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows11

The thing is that they release updated ISOs and hashes on MSDN or whatever their paid service is monthly with the latest hotfixes slipstreamed. Using the official media creation tool sounds great until you realize you are often getting a 2 year old version without all the updates.

Sure, but that only runs on Windows, and since presumably the machine that runs it could just update without needing to boot off installation media, which means that it only works for people who already have a Windows installation and want to install Windows on a second machine that doesn't have it preinstalled. This wouldn't include anyone considering switching from another operating system to Windows, who seem like the people they should be trying hardest to help. I guess you could run it off of a VM or maybe wine, but if anything that makes the set of steps I listed above even more convoluted. I don't think the idea that Microsoft's consistent, top-down strategy for supporting media installations in the post-CD age is to have people run use VMs or wine to create the media is more plausible than them just not having any consistent strategy at all.

If you clicked the link you'd see there's also a download for the ISO directly on that page. Same as its been since at least 8.

But their preferred way is using the Media Creation Tool.

Okay, so it's exactly like I said in my first comment you responded to, just with an additional solution for a small subset of people. It still doesn't seem very well thought out to me. I did click the link, but given that I had already mentioned they provided the isos (just without the checksums), I didn't actively search for them there.

> I'm honestly baffled by Microsoft's inconsistent way of both supporting and hindering people from installing Windows

They are a monopoly exercising monopoly power and comfortably out of touch with actual user experiences with the product. This is just the result of three decades of that.

https://msdn.rg-adguard.net/ has so far been legit. Note the hash you provided is for the consumer editions.

Funny anecdote: apparently, WSL doesn't work until you upgrade to the latest, when you are on the Windows insider build thing. Hilariously found that out when a server got into trouble while I was in the back of the car. Big smiles all around as I was downloading and installing the update over 4G and no power plugged in. Good times.

Sometime similar once happened to me, the moral is to not install the insiders version unless you have a legitimate reason to. Getting access to preview features before they’re ready on will get you in that kind of trouble.

More smiles and feelings! Thanks for contributing to the solution of this mornings problem :)

Even better is/was the wording around insider installation, it said you can go back to normal windows, but left out the small detail that you have to reinstall normal windows from scratch vs rolling back.

https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-11/265474/microsoft...

There are the things that are not in this update. Important ones.

It's official. Microsoft has nothing but chucklefucks working on their flagship operating system -- all the talented guys are now working for the cloud division because that's where Microsoft makes its money. Remember these are the same people who said it takes a Ph.D. to write a terminal emulator that doesn't run like ass, only to be shown otherwise by -- I believe it was Casey Muratori.

And he coded the solution in a weekend, no less. And terminals are not even his specialty! He just couldn't understand why the Microsoft team was taking such a top-heavy, convoluted approach.

Replying to my own comment to add the proof that instead of double-digit fps terminal text rendering, he was able to achieve 4-digit fps terminal text rendering after a weekend of coding:

Part 1 (Proof of concept): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxM8QmyZXtg

Part 2 (more features added): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99dKzubvpKE

Azure is absolutely ridiculous though? You think the people working there are talented?

TBH I think Microsoft's most talented people are working on the .NET team. Just gets better and better with every release.

.NET is still a thing? Who is using ASP?

me!

Meh, still no 64 bit support, which they had a chance to add for Span type, but completely missed. CIL itself has not been upgraded since 2.0, and they could have tried to add lifetime annotations in Rust style there. Java now has GraalVM mostly implemented in Java, and .NET is still written in C++. They are digging in random directions without seeing the bigger picture.

You're not wrong. Look at the like/dislike ratio on their AMA video about this topic. 29 likes, 733 dislikes JUST in the 'return youtube dislike' browser extension. What the heck guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbsUdFuWKuU

Highlights for me:

  - tabs in File Explorer
  - faster and more accurate search

Still not sure why tabs in File Explorer took so long... but happy that its finally here.

For the record the tabs in file explorer aren't currently available, the page just says they are coming in October

.. and maybe in 2050 the favorites / Quick access is allways visible.

I gave up on Windows search ages ago.

Now I use "Everything". It's instantaneous and finds, well, everything. Including hidden files or stuff in weird/obscure locations on the drive.

AFAIK it only does filenames though, nothing about searching in file contents as well. For me that's been good enough however.

Under the Advanced Search options there is a way to search file contents but it comes with a warning that contents are not indexed, so you'll want to narrow the search through filenames first.

It has worked for me when I knew the snippet I was looking for but couldn't remember which of about 50 files might contain it.

For searching file contents use Agent Ransack https://www.mythicsoft.com/agentransack/

And still showing virtual folders (focuments, videos, pictures etc) before drives in my computer ?

I really hope windows search has sped up again. I really only use it for opening apps that aren't on my taskbar but somewhere in the past couple of updates it slowed way down for me. I type S-T and it takes 5 seconds to come back with a list of apps starting with ST---.

Are there any power users who use File Explorer? I use TCMD since last millennium and ocassionally working with FE is unproductive PITA. Pretty much only time I use file explorer is when I open/save file (if that dialog window is even FE).

... And the taskbar is still anchored to the bottom of the screen. As a multi-monitor user who has tried Windows 11 this restriction hurts immensely.

Please let us dock the taskbar to the side of the screen.

>> Please let us dock the taskbar to the side of the screen.

Or the top of the screen.

Yeah, of the secondary screen.

Terrible degrading still remains.

"How to get the Windows 11 2022 Update – there’s never been a better time to buy a new PC"

Translation: This is a pig.

I quit using Windows 7 and moved to Linux a few years ago. Joined a new job and got a Windows 11 laptop. I cannot describe in words what I’m going through. It is absolutely appalling and at this point Windows 11 isn’t an operating system anymore. It’s malware.

The tabs in explorer seems good. Hopefully they’re keyboard shortcut friendly

I don’t see anything about addressing the UI paradigm/look chaos though? That would help with usability. Since 10 I can’t find anything in settings anymore and googling it is becoming less effective too with each change

Can you dock the taskbar to the side yet?

only with a regedit. afaik

Which breaks with (most) updates iirc.

I have never had an update break it.

Does it work as well as in Win10 with multiple monitors in different orientations? My expectation is since it's not supported there will be weird quirks and bugs.

No idea, I don't use multiple monitors in different orientations.

I'm a single issue Windows user over this. Can't believe they removed this in Win 11 and more importantly haven't put it back yet.

This change alone has caused me to reconsider a future on Windows. Who are they building this thing for? OS X already has a better developer story and SteamOS is nearing its inflection point for gaming. What is Windows good at? Having momentum?

WDDM is the best GPU driver model by far. Aero snap is the best implementation of window snapping. DWM is a good compositor. Those are really the only things I can name that I prefer over Linux these days.

More like Windows 8 R4.

I feel like Windows 10 started to suck less, and now we get to do it again.

I found the 8 family much better than 10. The only major UI difference to 7 was what, a stupid start menu. But it had old the good upgrades that made their way to 10. Oh well, what do I know

Indeed pretty much only issue with 8.1 was start menu easily solvable with Classic shell. If I have to reinstall OS in future, I am most likely going for W7 or W8.1 from my current W10.

Best feature seems to be that Windows will do updates and other energy intensive tasks only when the electricity is most expensive

You mean least expensive? Generally speaking the availability of renewable energy (sun and/or wind) coincides with cheaper electricity prices.

In the EU all prices are sky rocketing currently and now the windows update wants to be installed.

Sun is during the day. That's also the time of the most expensive electricity.

A few things to note, the speech recognition, camera effects, natural speech, captions, etc all appear to use some cloud service so there is definitely an anti-privacy angle here.

I also can't begin how to explain how much the Windows Store sucks. It has to be the worst app store in existence.

Windows 11 has brought great improvements to Windows 10. Now that Microsoft is breaking things by introducing useless features in Windows 11 rather than 10, Windows 10 is a lot more stable.

I just want Android apps to work outside of the US :| How can a feature like that be region locked? Ridiculous.

Since it came out there were several ways to use it outside of the US. Not official. But this is what i did since the launch of WSA.

If you really want to use it there are many easy ways to do so.

Probably because like most of the other features they mention they are doing extensive data collection.

I've been testing 22H2 via Insiders Beta channel for a couple of months now; the Live Captions feature is great and has been almost life-changing for me. Really glad it's rolling out to wider availability now.

How do you feel about having all your audio sent to Microsoft?

If the audio was actually sent to MS, I'd feel no worse than I would about Google getting it for live transcribe; the privacy implications annoy me but I'd rather have the captions.

That said, Win11 live captions work on-device and are not server-bound, and I've confirmed this by playing audio files and having captions still work while entirely off the internet.

For that matter, while I'm not an Android user - Google has moved most of their captions processing on-device and that is the same approach Apple is taking with theirs.

It still baffles me there aren't folder capabilities in the new start menu. It was supposedly coming in an update but I'm not seeing any mention of that here.

I thought it was added. Supposedly you can drag shortcut icons together and folders will form. Don't have it to test.

I greatly miss the virtual desktop switching animation. Any word on virtual desktop switching slide animation being part of this update?

I'm looking forward to reading about all the data collection this update now does, and about how many previously set preferences to avoid data collection this update will happily ignore and reset.

While I do run Windows in a VM now and then for stuff like EPROM programming, I am so glad I don't have to use it with any regularity. I think it'd drive me bonkers.

So in Windows 11 they removed a lot of useful features which users really miss, and meanwhile replaced it with a lot of advertisements littered around the OS and dark patterns which make it increasingly impossible to use anything but Internet Explorer Edge and Bing as a Windows user. Is Windows 11 generally understood to be the Vista like follower to Windows 10 or does anyone actually like it? (Although I remember people also saying they liked Vista and then years later the same people were making jokes about Vista when it’s image was beyond repair)

Vista was good but slow. It did not take any major features away and significantly improved graphics stack.

Windows 11 sucks.

It was slow on crappy intel igpus.

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