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Comment by matsemann | Hacker News Reader

A gravel bike is the perfect commuter bike! At least if you're not going electric.

Almost as light and fast as a road bike. But a bit more upright riding so it's more comfortable. Wider and more treaded tires means tram lines, pot holes, curbs etc. are less of a problem and can handle rough surfaces and not just asphalt. Mounting points and wider forks allow for mudguards / fenders so rain is no problem. The wider space allows for studded tires during winter. Also easier to mount panniers / luggage carriers to carry stuff home from the stores.

While I love my road bike for long rides on the weekend, I use my gravel bike daily. And it also allows me to go places I cannot go with the road bike, without having to go all mountain-bikey.

Btw, for road biking we often compare aerodynamics using "wattage per dollar". It can be surprising what then should be the first things to improve.

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I bought a steel frame touring bike for commuting and I think it's pretty much perfect mostly because the steel is springy, giving a pretty comfy ride.

Cutting the bike weight or tuning for aerodynamics seems kind of pointless because I have one or two panniers on board to carry the stuff I need for work (towel and dopp kit, change of clothes, lunch, laptop, etc...). Also, exercise is one of the reasons I'm choosing to commute by bike so having to work a tiny bit harder isn't necessarily bad.

"Touring" bike is basically just a gravel bike from the 1980s. There are also 1980s "sport touring" bikes that are similar (less specifically designed for long term touring with tons of rack mounts). Some of these are more just like affordable general use road bikes but the better "sport touring" bikes are the most underrated bicycles out there IMHO.

I agree, except on the electric part. Where I live e-bikes don't assist over 25/kmph, and I'm always above that... until, my ride home. Which is steep hill, and I'm tired, and I just want to go home. As an all-rounder it's been the best bike I've had yet, I can do just about anything with it. Very utilitarian.

I ride a heap, I ride MTB, commute and also a gravel bike for fun, so I feel no shame getting that e-assist on the commute. I don't need it for the fitness, I'm just getting to work!

One of the big benefits of a gravel bike is indeed the tires, they can be tubeless so no more annoying pinch flats, and they can be run at really comfy pressures depending on your personal preference.

Depending on the bike/motor you've got, something like this can be very inconspicuously added to your bike to get past the 25/kmph limit: https://planet3.bike

I've one on a Specialized Levo and it works great.

That's a great solution, I knew about the method for circumvention being the magnet pickup but I've never seen a specific defeat device like this. That's really clever.

Sounds like you also live in Oslo? At least the nice thing is that I don't get that sweaty on the way to work..

Not sure if you misunderstood my comment? I'm all for electric bikes (my GF is getting one today actually) and how they enable many more people to bike. I love seeing parents bike their kids to school on this big ebikes, zooming past hundred cars in a gridlock. But _if_ you're not going electric, a gravel is a great bike. If you're going electric, most of the problems a gravel solve aren't really a problem.

Oh I didn't think you were detracting from e-bikes, I just think that an electric gravel bike is worthwhile as it's still a fantastic formfactor for commuting, especially if you still want to use it non-electrically and out on rougher terrain (where rougher can be little bits of dirt or rough road on your commute).

I am actually in Australia, which has some surprisingly hilly places!

Ah, I see. I've never tried commuting on an electric, so I just tried to say that my advice from my knowledge only applied to "acoustic" bikes. But great to hear that gravel e-bikes rock as well!

I'm in agreement with almost everything except the tires. Unless your commute has a significant portion of rough surfaces, you definitely want to use some road tires. Not the super skinny ones used on road bikes, so you don't have an issue with tram lines/pot holes/curbs, but good reinforced road tires (so you don't have flats when going over glass/nails/whatever).

I've been commuting daily on a mountain-bike (chosen for the comfort of a full suspension and the braking power of disk brakes), and switching from the factory all-terrain tires to road tires about 2/3 the width has been a huge improvement: a lot less rolling resistance, and a lot more grip, especially when it's raining (despite less width).

I've commuted on a roady, a steel big tire bikepacking bike (basically a hardtail MTB) and now a gravel bike. I'd say the tires on gravel bikes tend to be the best compromise between comfort you get from a big volume tire, and the speed of a road or commute tire. They can run pretty high pressures, which is the biggest factor for rolling resistance, and they're pretty skinny relative to MTB tires.

For me, the minute rolling resistance tradeoff between the gravel tire and a commute tire is worth it. The road and bike network here kinda suck for smoothness, I'd rattle apart if I ran a road tire.

Thanks for the feedback! I've not had the occasion to try gravel tires.

For me, the main reason to use road tires is grip on asphalt, not rolling resistance improvment. On your commute, you may need to stop in an instant, and more grip = quicker stop = safer (I've had a few close calls, especially downhill under rain).

Obviously, that's also dependent on your regular commute road condition.

Braking is the main reason I love gravel tyres for commuting: their increased size means a larger contact patch which directly translates into a shorter stop (as stopping on skinny tyres with disc brakes is typically traction-limited).

The tyres on my gravel bike look just like fat road tyres: no knobs.

Have you considered tubeless? I hear that gives the RR benefits of high pressure but at lower pressures.

There are slick gravel tires. The author of the article sell some of his own brand Rene Herse. They are made by japanese brand Panaracer who also produce slick and treaded gravel tires under its own name and for other companies.

Slick large volume gravel tires are also sold by most bicycle tire brands. Most of them are tubeless compatible which remove the need for reinforced heavy tires as any puncture usually seal itself thanks to sealant.

I've also commuted for years on thin cotton road tubulars so it really depends on the kind of roads your are riding on. But having high volume will certainly improve comfort and also allow for better grip in the wet and better ride when the bike is loaded which is often the case if you are commuting.

Panaracer Pacenti's have been my goto everything tires for a few years now. Excellent hybrid tire.

Quality "touring" tires are amazing for this. They have a little bit of tread in case you need to do some dirt but very minimal. They are extra thick rubber because nobody wants to replace a tire if they are trying to bike 3000 miles over multiple months and they have low rolling resistance. They fit most bikes and come in very useful sizes like 35 or 38C. Schwabe Marathon is the classic choice but there are tons out there!

umm, hate to break it out to You, but... there's no such thing as a "perfect bike". This is why we have Rule #12 amongst the Velominati, the Keepers of the Cog. "The ideal number of bikes is always n+1, where n is the current number of bikes"

Everyone's commute is slightly different and while I use my gravel as a commuter just like You do, there's always the matter of personal preference.

What if You prefer to ride in regular clothes and "style" is a thing? Those dutch bikes someone mentioned a few comments ago are great for that.

What if You're riding through dense traffic / cityscape half of the time? A narrow bar fixie perhaps?

I like being able to get some exercise while commuting as well, but that's not necessarily true for everyone.

Of course! But I just wanted to give gravel some love! And spread some awareness of their existence.

I think most casual bike riders don't recognize them as a separate bike from road bikes. So they think it's either a dutch styled bike or a road bike, and if neither fit they end up commuting by car or so instead.

Gravel bikes are good commuters, if you like drop bars. Many commuters prefer flat bars for the more upright riding position, which allows for a better field of view for misbehaving drivers.

You still also have the classic problem that higher end bikes lose all the commuter friendly features. Carbon forks and frames often lose mounting points for fenders+rack. The marketing vision of a gravel bike is someone expecting to get muddy and who isn't trying to stuff a laptop into a saddle bag. Durable, maintenance friendly choices like threaded BBs and easy cable routing go away. You're stuck with heavy bikes with poor gear ranges, super low end components, cable brakes, etc.

I agree but there are exceptions. My carbon bike (from GT) has bikepacking mounts on both the frame and the fork. Mounting fenders wasn't a problem either. It also has outside cable routing but not a threaded BB.

I think Canyon is selling bikepacking gravel bike as well (Grizl). There are choices, you just need to look for them. It's true that these days availability is a problem but it's a problem with everything cycling related.

Drop bars can be set as high as you want. There are even off road drop bar bikes built with stems looking like goose necks to put the bar high enough (see example in the link). It is more about the position in which you want to put your hands/wrist that matters.

Gravel bikes are sold in many different kinds, and different materials. Steel, alu, titanium, carbon, you name it. They are also build with different use in mind. Some are "racing" gravel with many lightweight high end components, other are made for bikepacking with provision for fenders, front and rear racks and usually more common standards. Those are commuters friendly.

Link: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hVZNsMpWmxk/V9rqVdtLBHI/AAAAAAAAQ...

I cut my stem long and run my bars high due to a back injury.

It does mean that I essentially had to learn how to build my entire bike from scratch since noone builds a bike that way, but I'm happy I did.

For what its worth there are custom builders that do bikes in any geometry. There are also a number of small bicycles companies that may not have a shop in every city but that provide bikes with various kind of geometries.

Eventually I may do that, but for now keeping the stem long has been a good fit for me.

To clarify for some readers, you really only need super tall stems for major downhill sections and drops. Standard gravel bike geometries are just fine for most singletrack, even on gnarly terrain that most riders would balk at. Brake levers that are angled inward and spaced properly matters much more for instant responsiveness and precise turning control on hazardous technical terrain.

> You're stuck with heavy bikes with poor gear ranges, super low end components, cable brakes, etc.

Hmm, not my experience at all. At least the market here there are no "cheap" gravels. For around $1k-$1.5k (which is the cheapest gravels available here) I've gotten hydraulic breaks, Shimano GRX groupset, an OK weight etc.

Those prices seem low these days if you want any availability. All I'm seeing around me is $2-2.5k minimum for the same specs (higher end = carbon frame).

My steel gravel bike was built with bikepacking in mind, so it's carbon fork was revised after the first year to have those mounts for exactly that reason (Niner RLT Steel).

Modern drop bar shifters have an upright position though?

Extra wide dirt drops with the flare are best in my opinion for everything. They are not like the oldschool flared bars where they flare up and then out - they are totally flat at the center (and wide at the center) and then the drops flare outwards (the drops are not purely vertical). You combine this with an extra long stem (for more upright riding) and you get the best of all worlds. You can ride them like flat top bars with multiple hand positions in the center and there is tons of room for mounting lights or a beverage holder. You can install nice big fat shifters with comfy rubber hoods so you can hold via the hood itself or place your hand around the top of the drop and still brake. And then of course you can place your hands deep in the drops or at the very bottom of the drops.

The Dutch style bike is almost perfect for commuting, but for badly maintained roads I would occasionally want one with MTB suspension and tyres.

Yes, I've always wanted a "rural bike" to match Dutch urban bikes: upright posture with a comfy seat, fenders, baskets, a kickstand, IGH/belt, but wide tires and maybe even suspension.

Marin Muirwoods RC came close, but was overpriced for a banger bike.

Dutch style bikes are perfect for casual city riding, sight seeing and well, riding slowly. Usually when you are commuting and you have more than a couple kilometers to ride you want to do it faster. Dutch omafiets are really bad in term of aero.

Would you happen to know the age at which Dutch commuters (shopping) start to give up cycling? Do people regularly cycle past 90?

I don't have that exact figure, but the 65+ age group has a higher bicycle mode share than 26-45 and 46-64: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Bicycling-share-of-trips...

The oldest age I've found is 75, and they still rode 2x per week in 2011. http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2011/02/who-cycles-in-n...

I think it's pointless to lump everything together as "commute" - sure, if you're lucky and need to go only like 4km without hills then basically every bike will do - but no, I don't want to do 12-15km one way with that, just because I can probably save 1/3 of the time (also gravel vs road)

A Dutch-style bike is perfect for Dutch-style commuting: riding maybe three miles max to the shops or public transit on a high-quality network of bike infrastructure where you won't be bullied by drivers for riding at 8-12mph.

Atrocious US land use & infrastructure makes this less practical for many trips in the US, where destinations are widely spaced to allow for free/easy car parking and evasive maneuvers are often required for safety, and steep/off-road shortcuts are often useful to avoid traveling miles out of one's way on a network of arterial roads designed for fast & easy car travel at the expense of everything else, including human life. A gravel or hybrid bike is better suited for this sort of riding.

From a money perspective, there is no reason to buy an analog bike for commuting anymore given the current selection of ebikes, and even more so, aftermarket ebike kits like Bafang. You can buy a single speed beach cruiser for $200, add $1000 BBSHD kit that comes with a battery, and basically get everywhere faster than a top of the line aero road bike.

Well other than that with $1,200 commuter/cx bike you are getting much better quality kit, and are still getting a load of exercise.

Most ebike motors have different power modes. My wife has a beach cruiser bike set up with BBSHD with 5 power modes (custom programmed) depending on what she wants. Lowest power mode makes it feel like a regular bike because the added power compensates for the extra weight, mid power modes provide varying level of assist, while the top power mode gives you 30+ mph on throttle alone.

With this bike, she can either get exercise, or commute without pedaling at all.

Kit doesn't really matter when you have that kind of power, weight of the frame, wheels, e.t.c doesn't really matter, and you don't need gears - single speed setup is more reliable, with a thicker single speed chain that can handle the additional power. The only upgrade that I did on hers is just bigger 200 rotors front and back, which with mechanical brakes work totally fine for the weight.

I agree. I ride a Niner RLT Steel with drop bars, 1x10 gearset, 650b wheels, and Panaracer Pacenti tires.

I specify those things because my Bike of Theseus went through MANY variations before I got it to where I was happy!

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