‘The Rings of Power’ has inexplicably terrible writing
forbes.com
forbes.com
By far, my favorite example is the scene where Elrond challenges a mountain dwarf to a rock-splitting competition. As viewers (even ones unfamiliar with LOTR), we know the outcome of this contest. The only thing they need to show us are these two characters after the competition, breaking down their relationships as begrudging friends. Instead, we spend more than a minute-and-a-half watching a rock splitting montage. Completely pointless from a storyboarding and writing perspective, especially considering that the outcome doesn't circumvent our expectations.
My second favorite example is even dumber; the third episode has another pointless 90-second scene of Galadriel riding a horse and smiling in slow-motion. I'm not joking, the entire scene looks like one of those HDR demo shots you'd see on a TV at Best Buy.
The show is genuinely difficult to watch, but don't take my word for it. Watch the first episode for yourself and take a shot every time you audibly sigh, you'll never want to watch an Amazon original again.
Edit: links to both scenes below
- Elrond & Durin: https://youtu.be/KT6ldSEVHCU
- Galadriel Riding: https://youtu.be/4ZqMRAb3zKk
- Why did the orc leader wait until the escape attempt to send someone with a message to the humans?
- Why would he believe an elf would relay his message, that humans could surrender and join him? Aren't the elves trying to prevent humans from being corrupted?
- Why did he give him back his weapons?
- Why are other orcs attacking him? Did Adar not even care if Arondir made back to the humans alive?
It makes more sense if you consider that the plot was written that Arondir would get captured, meet the bad guy, save the kid, and go back to the woman he's in love with to face the bad guy with the humans. Once that was decided they just threw together some scenes to fill in the blanks. No consideration was given as to whether the characters decisions made sense in the moment, only that they move the plot to where it was supposed to go.
And I don't see why any of this is necessary. Couldn't they have Arondir meet Adar before the escape attempt, make the escape attempt succeed, and when the Orcs pursue him, he manages to steal some weapons from the first Orcs he defeats with his bare hands. It wouldn't be the most inspired writing, but at least the decisions the characters make, would make more sense.
I liked the scene with Galadriel riding. Until then she'd been shown as a hardened, argumentative and strident warrior except in the very start as a child. The scene shows a different side of her, which makes her happy; she's not entirely broken even after centuries searching for Sauron.
The entire story of this show is well known in advance. If you know anything about LOTR you will know who Isildur is and what's going to happen. So should they just skip the entire show?
It's the characters and their interactions, atop the beautiful visuals, that this show can establish itself with.
There's still many great scenes too. I love Elrond's friendship with Durin, Durin & Disa's relationship, the Harfoots, the Orcs, how Numenor Looks, how everyone in Numenor looks, how their ships look. I even enjoy the spectacular action scenes with insane leaps by the elves. There's lots of good stuff in there, but it's all held together why really awkward plot twists that make no sense.
It isn't about smashing rocks. It's about Elrond submitting to a Dwarvish custom and making a not-terrible showing (for an elf). It demonstrates the respect he has for them and shows the half-measure of respect he earns from them.
That is the key scene of the episode. The reconciliation would not have been possible without it.
She doesn't have the same kind of relationship I have with the original material, though, so she loves it so far.
I didn't watch them.
> personally I respect that opinion, but it's not quite how I see the LotR universe - to me, the 'mass market' entertainment aspect of it is fine.
I'm fine with it too. How it is adapted is just not my cup of tea. Besides, I wholeheartedly agree with William Gibson, here:
> The assumption that a film adaption is the final and/or highest state, for a novel, is as woefully wrong as any assumption can be.
I like to watch movies, but I like to read novels more and the original material is more than fine as-is. Tolkien's estate and William Gibson are just as much entitled to accept colossal cheques as "we" (this includes the authors themselves) are to reject what comes out of it.
> I'd rather have more people to be inspired in any form, than to lock it down to a small group of purists like e.g. Christopher Tolkien.
Well, I'd rather see the milking stop and have more people creating original stuff. If only because expectations would be low to non-existent.
This is really fascinating to me that someone would not watch the movies but is watching Rings of Power. Would you tell your story a bit for how that happened?
As a lifelong Tolkien fan, I tend to at least check out everything even if I don’t read or watch it. And I don’t have the self control to avoid the movies. Especially ones as great as Jackson’s (Return of the King has the most Oscar’s ever awarded to a film, tied with Ben Hur).
There are, of course, plenty of cases of good adaptations that can live side-by-side with the original material, Blade Runner comes to mind, but they tend to be outliers.
The movies were direct adaptations of the original material and the trailers I watched at the time were too off-base for me and I preferred my own head cannon to Peter Jackson's so I skipped the whole thing.
On the other hand, the series was sold more like an ad-lib inspired by the annexes of The Lord of the Rings, which are as fuzzy as it gets, so it was supposed to be less tied to the original story and, in theory, less off-base with my head cannon. It turned out to be even worse than the little I now know of the movies so I will stop here. Some of it certainly is pretty but, as hinted above, I tend to value stories and characters more than visuals.
In fact, the delta between my head cannon and the series is far greater than with the movies so I might as well watch them one of these days.
Written word FTW.
This is a good question actually.
"Look, we spent a lot of money on this filming and you will damn well sit through them!"
(see also Thor: Love and Thunder for another thing that needed a stronger edit but presumably didn't for the same reason.)
Rings of Power does not have that excuse.
[1] modulo the "blacker than a black hole" bits where it was impossible to see anything even on a UHD TV.
Regarding the rock-splitting competition spoiler - I thought he was going to win. I’m only two eps in, but I’ve enjoyed the show so far. It’s much better than I expected, particularly given everything I’ve read about it being so poorly executed. I had much lower expectations. I’m not raving about it, but I’m not panning it either.
I imagine that if you’re much closer to the source material, then there’s no way this show could have possibly met your expectations. On the other hand, if you want to catch a decent LOTR spin-off, and you’re neither a film student nor a die-hard JRRT fan, I’d say give it a shot.
- There is no build up, nothing is at stake, they are just travelling to the setting for the next scene.
- The gratuitous close ups of the horse.
- Its one of the three ways people get places, why would the millennia old Galadriel be so ecstatic? There has been no hint that Galadriel is really into riding horses.
- The music and slow motion are so comically over the top.
The scenes where no story development happen also serve a purpose: allowing the viewer to not be drowned in over-information.
The show is easy to follow because of that reason, even for someone who hasn't watched anything LOTR related before.
All the comments about the development being too slow or some scenes being just for spectacle are nonsensical. The ones mentioning the budget as if it had been allocated to the first 4 episodes are even worse.
Game of Thrones is 70+ hours start-to-finish, that wasn't an excuse to slow the pacing down or write impotent dialogue. It knows how to direct characters, and the showrunners understand that 60 seconds of horse riding doesn't make good television. Allegory is used sparingly, and the world is fleshed out through it's characters rather than CGI environments. It leads to a story that can be followed by bookworms and football dads alike.
The Rings of Power doesn't build it's world in the same way. Instead we're whisked away to exotic locations that most viewers are unfamiliar with, and the following scenes do nothing to really characterize the world these characters inhabit. It's like the writing team and art directors never met to share notes. I'd argue that this lack of cohesion makes it decidedly harder to follow than other contemporary fantasy shows.
> The ones mentioning the budget as if it had been allocated to the first 4 episodes are even worse.
Okay, I'll be generous then. Why can't $125 million dollars buy better writers?
And the result was a soap opera set in a “fantasy” world. They teased us with white walkers in the first episode, and then… nothing, for like 7 seasons. We didn’t even get to see any dragons for what seemed like forever.
I know this is really a rhetorical question but imagine just being able pay more for better writing.
(The writing sucks because this is a commercial project first and foremost)
Is it that difficult? What if you ran a contest to write the best script, winner gets a million dollars and top billing in the credits?
Seems there should be plenty of college students who can write better than e.g. last season of Game of Thrones.
There’s also a great speech by Kevin Smith where he describes being hired to write Superman and he goes to the producer’s house to read the script. The guy is coked out, ranting about how there needs to be action every 10 pages in the script or the audience will get bored. He’s talking about spiders and says the main villain should be one. Then Smith says Superman’s kryptonian name, “Kel’al” or whatever, and the guy is like, who?
That’s the people making these calls sometimes. Most companies do not have a Kevin Feige.
Amazon especially is going to be an overly cautious and bureaucratic behemoth. Inexperienced as a whole despite whoever they hired. Meanwhile HBO just bought a Channel 5 documentary produced by Tim and Eric and A24 with total creative freedom. Risky. That’s the difference between shills and artists.
I could only find one where they thought women superhero movies were disasters.
Edit found it [1], I always imagine it being like this, but seeing the emails is just...wow.
[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/qaju55/email...
Peter Jackson first trilogy is probably a better benchmark.
For reference my favorite movies would be No Country For Old Men, There Will Be Blood, Fury Road. I like The Wire, Breaking Bad, True Detective season one. But I think Marvel is a different sort of thing altogether. The sheer reliability of it is unrivaled. Which is why I say that’s what Rings of Power lacks for me. The writing doesn’t have to be groundbreaking. Just keep the thing competent despite all the cooks in the kitchen. Many pieces of media seem to fail at this.
Lately I will say the formula has worn thin. I consider their run to be from Iron Man to Endgame.
At least for me, Tolkien's work was always a slower pace, at times almost medidative experience. It's got suspense and action, but also a depiction of melancholy and beauty unlike anything else. And I feel the show is using these qualities well.
The dialogue, criticized by many, is actually very feasible and for the most part fits LOTR well (except a couple of infractions). Yes it's geeky, and sometimes unnecessarily heavy handed. Welcome to Middle Earth! That's part of the charm, and always has been, especially when something truly beautiful is being said.
I really don't know what expectations everyone had for this show, maybe a GOT clone, which thankfully it is not. Personally I feel like it was made for Tolkien fans like myself. I just hope they don't screw it up going forward.
Rings of Power feels more like a return to fantasy as a meditation on wonder: I feel sometimes as if I was a child again stumbling upon some ruin in EverQuest or swampy bog of alien dangers.
I think I also prefer Tolkien's flavour, but I can appreciate Martin's grittiness none the less.
My belief is that we're still in a time when Sauron can assume a fair form - after all, Numenor is still around.
exactly! I feel like I've lost my mind talking to people about this. How has anyone who likes the movies or books a problem with the dialog in the show? It's always been lyrical and corny.
Fanboyism. Fashion.
Its a pretty good show. Actually I consider each episode a movie. The story is rich. Comprised of interwoven stories that coherently connect to each other.
I would go as far to say that I like it better than the last 2 books of Lotr trilogy, where the story and setting turns to a neverending beautification of monarchy, leaving behind the gripping story of a band of misfits fighting against great evil and difficulties until the end of the fellowship of the ring.
That's because Tolkien was a monarchist, of course. But that does not help anything.
Contrast this with Legolas who would often peer into the distance and then announce how many orcs there were in a raiding party far enough away that the others couldn’t even see them.
That’s actually one of my biggest problems with this show. I don’t get the sense that the elves are a different species with different abilities and a different type of soul. Especially in the opening scene of episode one, when you see a bunch of elf children acting like stereotypical human bullies.
I also really, really hate that halflings seem like they’re going to play a major role in world events. The shock value to the mythology of LotR was that the hobbits up until that point in history had been completely inconsequential. It kind of ruins the stories of Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, Pippin, and Merry if this is actually the second time that hobbits have shaped history.
It just feels like they are relying on the names and visual effects and the set dressing to carry the show, while they cram in a generic fantasy plot.
I have the exact same complaint with star trek discovery which showed Spock being bullied by Vulcan children. They even had the elf ears
And clearly they love their plot more than their characters, dragging the characters by their hair to wherever the plot needs them to be, whether it makes sense or not. And even that could have been acceptable if at least that plot was something good, but I still don't see it. A lot of stuff feels like it should be going somewhere, but after 4 episodes, it's still not clear where it's supposed to be going, except towards those heavily foreshadowed disasters: Sauron's return, the fall of Numenor, and it looks like they're also going to throw Durin's Bane into the mix. 4000 years early.
It all looks great. I love how the Harfoots and the Orcs, Numenor and their ships, as well as the dwarfs, look. And there are some great, lovely, inspired scenes. But it's starting to look like it's all superficial. Everything is haphazardly taped together by awkward plot twists.
I really wanted to love this show. I still do. But they're making it very hard.
Still attracts a dedicated audience just like daytime soaps. Notice that the people who like the show don't really address the issues covered in the article. They don't care.
I do care and it is almost painful to watch.
How does the creature not understand the question of their name but understand the question of where they are from? Oops?
Why did the orcs return the elf's bow and arrow? How else will the elf rescue the boy.
Who swims with a full gown? Gotta keep it PG-13.
How can an elf who lives hundreds of years not learn any diplomacy? How the fuck would I know?
How can the orcs chase the boy out into the sun without any effects yet later burn in the sun? How did it become dark as night yet become sunny a short time later? Gotta reuse the orc sunlight device to let him escape.
A wheelbarrow of food is enough to feed how many people? Have they invented the horse drawn carriage?
BTW, where are the horses or horse like animals?
If you flee to a tower, you must have a plan for defense? Do you?
Does the actress playing Galadriel have any emotion other than anger and that freeze frame uncanny valley smile?
How did Galadriel get to the king again? One would think that her escaping once would result in many more guards to prevent a second escape.
Also those "sad dramatic slow motion death scenes" of those elf character dying were peak stupidity: we don't even care about them since they had 30 seconds of screen time and you give us slow motion sad dramatic scenes as if Frodo himself would deserve on his hypotethical death...
At times, the characters seem to give up any logical thinking, relying entirely on "feelings". Because Archimedes never existed in Middle Earth, a character believes for instance stones don't float because they don't "look towards the light". Another character believes that someone that literally fell from the sky in a fireball is important simple because "they have a feeling".
I could go on about how many scenes look like stock footage, but now I'm more curious as to how all these details don't affects how some viewers take it all in. I know each example individually seems minor, but the sum of 100 minor absurdities is a huge absurdity.
I haven’t met a single real human who likes it. And many who will go on for many minutes about how much they despise it.
A majority of the stuff we are seeing these past 10 years is really bottom of the barrel writing. Occasionally something great will come along like BR2049. But for the most part the writers rooms have been terrible. This is unsustainable and will eventually bottom out as poorly written movies and shows (I mean, “content”) continue to lose money.
I very much think that it knocks it out of the park compared to a LOT of other recent works in fantasy genre, including the Hobbit trilogy.
An error here and another there do not make terrible writing. There are various interwoven stories in the Rings of Power, each of them consistent within itself, creating a tapestry that easily makes you buy into the world. It requires much less suspension of belief compared to many other works. Including the Hobbit trilogy, again. And don't even mention recent Star Wars flops. That was bad writing.
Can you explain to me why the elf lady wanted a boat then actively refused to take the one she was offered?
Or why the orc leader suddenly left a prisoner go to do something which could have been done by his own army since forever?
This show is extremely sloppy. Most of the events seem to happen because they are convenient for the plot rather than organically. That’s the hallmark of poor writing.
If you nitpick like that, you can find a zillion such questions from the Lotr trilogy, the books themselves.
Part of the neatness of the world to me is how everything fits together. Dwarves don’t decide to randomly shave their beards. Elven kings don’t scheme against their subjects. Nothing happens randomly in lotr or even the hobbit book.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/amazons-lord-of...
Instead, they seem to be doing everything at once, leading to a very confused story. They're already foreshadowing events that shouldn't be happening for 2000 years, introducing characters that shouldn't be born for 2000 years. The story is jumping to the end before the rings of power even exist. It seems to be telling the story backwards.
I read all of Tolkien's books I could get my hands on as a teenager. That was decades ago but for whatever reason the show so far has reminded me of the books far more than LOTR and Hobbit movies ever did.
Amazon execs have no understanding of art/cinema. Don't expect much from the teams they organize.
There are people who actually do love pointing out all sorts of details, technical issue, the quality of material or lack of it, the every single bit of "what's wrong with this thing". That's more entertaining for them than regular watching.
Besides, the critical opinions - even the strongly voiced ones also work for film/show/whatever advertising and popularity.