Hacker News Reader

Comment by NegativeLatency | Hacker News Reader

In both instances workers are being taken advantage of by an employer because of asymmetric power in the system.

Maybe it's better to think on it in terms of the flexibility of Uber's services when they were a mere startup and their evolution over time (business strategy, finances, app development and deployment, etc) and the myriad of ways so-called consumers, according to the article, took advantage of them and now, more government regulation.

I knew of someone who made it his full time occupation to drive for Uber (and still does today) despite the hurdles of being involved in that structure. I also know of another who drove to supplement his existing income stream (during covid19) to make his ends meet.

Asymmetric power is the engine that turns the world.

Everyone on earth has asymmetric power in one context or another. Men and women, kings and peons alike. There is no universality, despite some of the narratives out there

Edit: seeing this comment have wide swings from upvotes and downvotes, wish the “most controversial” sorting was a thing

There are places where asymmetric power is fine, and there are places where it's too much and laws need to step in.

Are laws not a form of asymmetric power?

I’m not making a normative statement. It’s objective.

As easily as what you said, one could say (and US allies like Saudi do say) “women’s rights are mostly fine, but there are places where they go too far and a husband must step in”

Sure?

I don't really know what relevance this has to the previous conversation. But I would say that laws are much more likely to get things right than to let every powered individual make their own rules.

The context is the battle between capital and labor. Its (historically) very important and this is just one tiny instance of it. Another instance was on NPR today about the proposed railroad workers strike, apparently they don't get any paid sick days which is outrageous especially considering how lauded Warren Buffet is when he yaks about paying less tax than his secretary; well she doesn't spend $10m a year on tax lawyers and maybe Buffet could spare some sick days for the BNSF workers? Tech examples could include workers in China suffering under 9-9-6, or Google-Apple wage suppression collusion, or a common topic around here, how early startup employees lose their equity comp through some kind of legal slight-of-hand.

You are right and we have allowed capital to outpace labor in power by supporting globalization and loose central bank policy since the closing of the gold window in 1971

But there are thousands of other jobs to choose from.

The government itself has a bunch of jobs that require similar skills.

Hard for immigrants to get those jobs. They might not in the locations where those jobs are, or can't pass a background check, or might have been arrested for dui 10 years ago, or maybe once wrote a hot check (which must happen way more for poor people). A lot of uber drivers are immigrants without much access to the working world, nothing like I have as a us citizen with a college degree and history of working as a dev. If I just immigrated from Ghana, and I also was maybe driving some times on my buddies car and id because I wasn't allowed to for some reason. This is the underclass world a lot of people are living in.

You meant *illegal immigrants right?

Your wording sounds like you're posting this as a "gotcha". Would you like to elaborate further?

And as a response to your perceived "gotcha", no, they do not need to be illegal. Even a refugee with a medical degree in their home can arrive here and can fall through the cracks in our system just because they aren't able to master a second language fast enough. Not every immigrant is illegal, no matter the pearl clutching.

Gotcha? No.

I'm referring to people whom are given the same legal benefits of being able to work besides me when they haven't gone through the proper channels of legalities nor sought to do so. I remember my parents immigrating to the US and not have to cross a river at night with just the clothes on their back or pay off a "coyote" to do so.

I doubt it. Do you really think Uber could get away with employing undocumented people as drivers without getting found out?

In California it might but I was thinking more in generalities of all the other startups we have had when Uber came to be.

For example, GigWalk.

Uber doesn't 'employ' their drivers. They are contractors. AFAIK an illegal can get a TIN, which combined with their home country's identity documents would be sufficient to legally complete the paperwork to pay out the contract [note this is not legal advice.]

You'll notice this pattern lots of places. Look around in employment ads for construction gigs in lots of cities and they'll be looking for 'contract' teams which we all know likely means some illegals who setup a genuine LLC or get a TIN or whatever; there's no requirement to verify legal employment when paying out a contract AFAIK.

>Hard for immigrants to get those jobs. They might not in the locations where those jobs are, or can't pass a background check, or might have been arrested for dui 10 years ago, or maybe once wrote a hot check (which must happen way more for poor people).

Are you sure you're not talking about gig workers as well? For instance, uber says[1] that they need a valid drivers license and conducts background checks (which apparent check for previous driving infractions as well as criminal history).

[1] https://www.uber.com/us/en/drive/requirements/

Reply on news.ycombinator.com