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Comment by CobaltFire | Hacker News Reader

So maybe HN can help someone with a question related to this:

I’m retiring from the military in the spring with a state college STEM BS (3.79 GPA; done on active duty) and a whole lot of experience. I was looking at ranking as a possible way to help decide where and if I would do a graduate degree; I want to further my education but am geographically limited.

What other signals can I use that are relevant to the tech world? I’m still undecided on a STEM Masters vice something more like Liberal Arts or MBA and don’t completely understand the signaling there in tech either, aside from the MBA pushing to management.

I’m open to any advice either here or via my contact info in my profile. Really at a loss on how to proceed and hope someone around here might have good advice!

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I applied to and got into a bunch of good universities to study for my MS in computer science.

My biggest mistake, BY FAR, was not visiting all those schools, talking with prospective advisors and current students, and using my gut instincts on those conversations to guide my decision.

I picked the school that I felt was the best but wound up poorly matched with an advisor. I had been a very proactive and driven undergrad (returned to undergrad in my late 20s) but reverted to a passive approach in grad school - it was a terrible mistake. By the end of my first year, I was completely demotivated and very unhappy. I turned it around my second year by dropping my advisor and taking some control in the process back. But I also totally punted on a PhD and settled for a MS. But it left me very unsatisfied in the process and in a position of asking "what if" in many ways.

One big part of why I was dissatisfied is that in hindsight, many of the professors I interacted with were simply not very friendly or considerate of students. Maybe they were used to being able to be more dismissive of undergrads coming straight to grad school, but as an adult I expected adult interactions. That experience was partly my fault - there are always people who are prickly to deal with. I should have been a little more self-directed about making sure I was working with better people even if it meant maybe doing thesis or research work in an area that was slightly less interesting to me personally.

Thanks for this. It’s a stretch to hope any real grad degree will accept me, but I’m thinking all they can do is tell me no.

The advice about advisors I keep hearing repeated, so I will have to listen (if I can get in anywhere).

Your chances of admission are probably significantly better than you think.

I did my BS in computer science at a mid-lower-tier state school - it wasn't like I was all-world Stanford/MIT/CMU or anything. I did a bunch of GRE practice tests and have always been a very strong standardized test-taker so I had that going for me.

I also had cultivated strong references at my undergrad institution. My references were professors I had multiple classes under and that I had actually spent time with during office hours. You may have those sources available to you but I would guess that a decent fallback might be former commanding officers?

The school where I got my MS also had stories about active duty Air Force students coming in full-time for a PhD, mowing through the check-lists of to-do work, and finishing their PhD in the three years the AF gave them to do it.

Your military background may be a strong point in your favor. Also, I vaguely remember that military retirees often had some tuition assistance programs. Grad schools LOVE students with external funding sources. Look into this.

Lastly, it sounds like you have a good story to tell. Tell that story in your application letter!

I’ve been hesitant to lean on my story, as it were, as it seems too close to the plot of a Lifetime movie.

I’ll have to get over that and leverage it I suppose.

I have almost no contact with professors outside of class due to the nature of my degree taking a long time and it being online.

I do have at least one CO who is a cheerleader for me and is the one who has told me to push higher. He is open to writing any and all letters I need. Most of the others I’ve lost contact with, and due to my situation my most recent ones hardly know me.

You aren't leaning on your story so much as you are demonstrating successful experience navigating a world that isn't laid out in a way that made it easy.

Retiring from the military? I expect you know deeply how to navigate a bureaucratic system with sometimes frustratingly weird rules. (translation - can work through grad school institutional requirements without hand holding)

Possibly at least partially funded by outside sources? (translation - wait, I don't have to pay the full cost of the student? Has healthcare already? FREE FREE FREE labor to advisor)

Earned undergrad degree while working full time and caring for a special-needs child? (translation - nothing here is going to knock this person off course)

Truthfully speaking, almost everyone has a good story to tell. People are generally interesting to me and I think to others - especially the type of other people you would probably prefer to work with.

Maybe I am being overly optimistic about it but maybe remember that grad school is not a magical place where only super-geniuses tread the halls (internal opinions on that may differ </slight sarcasm>).

You gave me my first honest laugh of the day, thanks! It's a chemo week, so those are in short supply.

As for the actual content of your comment... I can see all of those. Never having walked those halls it's very much blind to me and statements like yours help demystify what I'm looking at.

Every statement you made there is true: I have stable income, I have paid for health care, I have the GI Bill if needed, I know bureaucratic systems, I'm excellent at project management, and I don't give up or derail easily.

Maybe I have a shot. I'll have to sit down and work out exactly what I want to pursue; I don't have long left in the season for applications.

+100 to visiting all the schools after you apply. I believe it signaled serious intent to the departments where I applied and gave me a chance to explain my non-traditional background in person.

Ended up attending a school in a location that I wouldn't have ranked first on paper but ended up loving. And vice versa for a school in a location that didn't bother me on paper, but when I visited, I realized I couldn't spend years there.

I hadn’t considered doing this. It’s a huge investment, but I suppose just by making that investment it’s a signal to that department.

Thanks!

Rankings aren't a bad place to start, they just shouldn't be where you finish too. Keep in mind that there really isn't too much difference between the #2 versus the #10 school or the #30 vs the #50. If two schools are in the same general neighborhood in ranking, that's when you should start putting more weight on the intangibles and how the school meets your needs specifically as opposed to just generally having a good reputation.

Thanks for this. I know there is a lot of compression in rankings, so it's kind of like IQ ratings: you can't tell the difference in normal day-to-day stuff until they get fairly large.

It's also like them in that it's a less than rigorous ranking it seems!

Are you looking to do a thesis? If so, I'd suggest that it is more important to find a professor who is well regarded and working on a problem that you care about.

That’s something I’ve been thinking about. Doing a degree on Active Duty means a lot of late nights and weekends and no real time to explore anything not directly related to the degree.

Further, my son has cancer and autism and with the relative stability of my pension I have thought that I’d like to make the world a better place in some way that my experience can be leveraged.

Unfortunately that combination leaves me with little hope of being admitted to a more classical MA or PhD because I just didn’t do the coursework that is needed to apply and distinguish myself. Perhaps a terminal MA at a state school?

I’m in CA and can move to any school in the state; I can’t really leave the state for a few reasons to do with my sons care.

FWIW, I did a MS with a thesis, I really liked it. Currently I'm working on a PhD, and honestly -- I dunno, with the MS I was working on more of a little refinement to something that my professor had done, it was pretty cool. With the PhD, there's almost too much freedom and the expectations are much higher, haha.

The MS felt more much more practical. Some of that could be related to the specifics of the projects, but... I dunno, there's something to be said for restricting scope.

As a project/program manager I feel that last sentence in my bones.

Well it's not like there is shortage of great schools in California. Basically anything in the UC system is great, there obviously Stanford and USC as well. But certainly Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD, UCSB are all world class and UCI, UCSC, UCR and UCD are nothing to sneeze at either. Cal State also has some great programs particularly in Engineering at Poly San Luis Obispo

As far as the degree itself it really depends on what you want to do. Work in a business? MBA will be fine, work as an Engineer? Get an MS. Be a Lecturer at a CC? Any Master's will probably work.

In the US, if you can get accepted to a PhD, you get full scholarship, especially in STEM, but also in other fields. You can drop out in a year or two and get your masters. (I got my master's this way at Harvard, though I also finished the PhD. Nothing was required but the first year of course work and a language test.

Far less expensive and possibly less work than going directly to masters.

But if you do want to pay for a professional masters', then unlike undergrad, the specific program may be more important than the reputation of the university as a whole.

Look at where you might want to end up and see if they have any connections to specific schools / programs in schools. Beyond the education and the prestige attached to a school / program, the big benefit of graduate school is making connections. This is not nearly as present in online programs, but it can still be there.

This is another aspect of a school's program I hadn't considered, thanks!

As others have said, grad school is a very different animal from undergrad. People choose undergraduate schools for all kinds of reasons, but a graduate degree should be 100% focused on what’s best for your career.

I think you’re looking at things from the wrong direction, and flipping it around will help a great deal. It seems like you’re going from the idea that you want to further your education, to thinking about potential degrees, and only then what you might do with them. This is how you wind up in a masters program that turns out to go nowhere or be a bad fit. Instead, turn it around! Set a goal for yourself and plan backwards from there.

What degree do you need? Do you need one at all? What kind of advisors and faculty should you be looking for? All questions that you can only answer sensibly with a goal in mind.

In my case my career is done and it’s time to find a new one. I have a decent amount of fixed income, and have been considering using my second career for something more fulfilling I suppose, hence the possibility of a degree that makes no financial sense but might make me happy or allow me to contribute to society in some way.

Graduate degrees are a different animal, but one thing you could do is look into who you might be under at the school, and what kind of work they're doing.

My advice is that you get a civilian job /before/ you start your MS. There's a few reasons why:

1. Your employer may sponsor you and pay for some/all of the cost, or otherwise support you financially while attending.

2. #1 may be contingent on which school you attend.

3. Your coworkers who are mentors to you (at whatever level that may be) likely have connections and can steer you towards the right school to further your career.

Ultimately, to a large degree, your career should decide if, when, and where you attend graduate studies if you aren't going to go into academia. A lot of people do Georgia Tech in the FAANG world and it's pretty great, but some companies have an internal (and often unspoken) preference for particular schools if you're trying to rise in the ranks.

This is a path I’m pursuing as kind of a default, with graduate applications to a full time program being what I’m asking about here in particular.

Georgia Tech or CMU are two I’ve been recommended if I go this route, so it’s nice to hear that wasn’t necessarily bad guidance!

What is your ultimate goal? To be employed in tech? If so, what type of positions? What is your MOS (or equivalent)?

Like many people leaving the military I'm not 100% sure what I want to do, simple because I haven't been exposed to the breadth of what I have the options to do. I'm institutionalized, for lack of a better word. Tech is what I'm most familiar with, so that's what I default to. The more I think about it the less I care about making all the money and the more I want to do something that fulfills me and lets me make society a better place.

I am an Aviation Electronics Technician, previously a Nuclear Reactor Operator. Also have experience with Lean Six-Sigma (Black Belt), physical and IT security, was an instructor, and lots of QA experience.

It's been an interesting ride, and I took every opportunity afforded me.

My advice is to look at the programs that Amazon offers to veterans: https://hiring.amazon.com/our-team/military#/

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