Timing of daily calorie loading affects appetite and hunger responses | Hacker News Reader

Timing of daily calorie loading affects appetite and hunger responses

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46 pointsKaibeezy60 comments

It is so much easier for me to eat dinner only than to eat breakfast only.

I notice I control my calorie intake much better with only black coffee in the mornings and eating in a 6 hour window later in the day. I have become sensitive to caffeine in the past year and mostly stick to decaf and it really made me realize how much I was relying on caffeine as an appetite suppressant.

Same. I just eat after work. However if you are lifting weights it's best to lift after your meal. Not a bad end to the day tbh

There is nothing wrong with lifting fasted as you're just burning stored glycogen. Unless you're totally glycogen depleted. If anything, there is benefit as being in a fasted state increases insulin sensitivity.

I prefer it, personally. Lift around 11am, follow with a big lunch and small early dinner. On rest days, small lunch and bigger dinner.

I read that you are weaker when lifting fasted, but I should probably try mornings since that's when I have the best energy. Probably depends on the person.

Does it matter that you're weaker? Perhaps if you felt dizzy or tired enough that you might injure yourself.

I found myself feeling a little weaker before I got into the habit of fasting until late afternoon, but once I got used to it - and corrected my water and salt intake - I felt normal, and then better than before, when I used to eat breakfast and lunch.

It really is "do what works for you". I track my lifts closely and notice no real max output difference fasted vs. not. Hydration seems to be a lot more important for me which can be an issue lifting in the morning, especially if in keto.

I do intermittent fasting, but am in the process of moving my workout to my lunch break, and eating directly afterwards. I've only been on the 'easy' part of the workout cycle so far, but I expect that I'll eventually get used to it and perform closer to normal.

Combined with some legit meds I take, I sometimes need to remind myself to eat in the afternoon, and not get lazy about it. My appetite is very accustomed to being pushed off.

Likewise. If I can make it past 9am, I know I can fast till 2 or 3pm without much trouble.

Related rant: I wish I could get my hands on one of those fancy continuous glucose monitors to correlate my findings. Damn hassle in the US with prescription and all.

Not cheap, but check out https://www.levelshealth.com/

Rant: I hate everything about that website, it shows so much marketing yet all I want to see is what the device looks like and how it works

I'm Canadian and recently diagnosed diabetic, and my doctor gave me one of out of his 'free sample' box. It worked great at first (for a few days) then it stopped working. I assume I had banged it too much so I went to the pharmacy and bought one (no prescription needed) and had the pharmacist apply it. It cost ~$200. That one stopped working after 2 days. So I go back into the pharmacy to request a new one and they said: Call the number on the box, they will send you a new one. So it happens often enough that they know the little arm-patch devices are not dependable.

This was not one of the fancy kinds that are usually integrated with an insulin pump. It applied to the back of my arm.

Now I poke my finger 2-5 times a day. It was nice having data on my phone that I could look at, but that data was still locked to my device and not exportable so it was worthless.

I use Google Sheets to keep track, and I can do it anywhere AND do something useful with the data.

>that data was still locked to my device and not exportable

Look at the hardware lists of open source projects in this space:

https://openaps.readthedocs.io/en/master/docs/Gear%20Up/CGM....

https://androidaps.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Module/module.ht...

Have you tried dry fasting? I've tried it about ten times, 24-48 hours each, and it's surprising how little my body cared about eating or even drinking the several times I've done it.

That sounds like an awful idea to be honest. Good way to damage your kidneys or flare up an diagnosed previously mild condition like hypotension.

Even so if your electrolytes become imbalanced when you do hydrate after the fast it's a whole other set of concerns.

No water? 48h? Hell no. Not sure I would live.

Same. Just eating one proper meal with food that doesn't instantly metabolize sometime after noon. Occasionally some low-calorie-vegetable-only snack before sleep. And switching anything bread-like out, a bunch of nice baked potatoes keeps hunger out longer than some bread.

I tried various stuff but the common advice of "5 small meals across the day" just made me feel like some cow that constantly have to eat something and it was bother to manage, all while I was getting hungry quickly. Took a long while to switch but if I'm not trying to drop weight but "just" keep it steady I can eat big, nice, tasty meal once a day then don't touch food for next 24 hours without much hunger bothering me.

I stopped with caffeine because I was drinking it only at work and I often had headaches on Sunday, till I eventually figured out I will get headache from too much coffeine exactly 2 days after i stopped drinking it.

Didn't even drank it for the stimulation, just that I like coffee and work had expresso machine and I didn't... took like 2 weeks for me to stop being sleepy in the morning but wasn't that hard.

Breakfast makes me drowsy and less productive and it has always been this way. When I forced myself to eat in the mornings and/or five times a day, it was horrible. Brain fog, overall laziness and I felt like shit all the time.

Then I moved to not eating in the morning. Just water and coffee with no additions. Ate mostly in the evening and all was good. Then I read that the last meal should be about 2 hours before sleep. Ok.

And then I read about intermittent fasting which... I've already been on unknowingly. And so am to this day. The feeling of hunger only exists after I eat something. If I don't eat before evening, I'm not hungry and could go to sleep without eating. But if I eat some snack during the day, I'm hungry since the first dish.

I actually find if I don't eat breakfast and/or lunch, when 4pm comes around I get super tired. I get major brain fog if I don't have food in the mornings.

What is your diet like? You might be different from me but when I would eat sugars and carbs I would get the same thing when intermittent fasting.

Usually for breakfast three eggs, some bacon and some toast. Sometimes a bowl of oatmeal.

Well if the US can get over the stigma of paying student athletes, I hold out hope that one day PED use for therapeutic and quality of life reasons will be taken out of the bad things list. It’s getting closer with TRT, but still.

With proper medical guidance - just like starting a diet or workout plan considering heart and digestive functions needing to change - adding in a SARM or some other modern aggressive component can really do wonders in a shorter timeframe.

This is an instant gratification society and I advocate for a middle ground - old way is too slow, doesn’t show results, most modern way of surgery isn’t sustainable and is risky, so in the middle take a little from each. Work hard and better living through chemistry. And yes - it does take work to eat to fuel the machine - I’m not even on anything now and getting 50g takes effort and shakes and money for now. On cycle that would be 75 to 100 on leg days.

I still miss ostaribe but PJ Brain is a convicted felon now so yeah, I’m pretty sure it’s not too hard to find a juice doc in Southlake or something.

Can you decipher PED, TRT, SARM, ostaribe, PJ Brain for the rest of us?

PED = Performance enhancing drug. Used by athletes for a competitive edge.

TRT = Testosterone Replacement Therapy. Used by older men to restore youthful levels.

SARM = Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator. Non-steroid drug with steroid like effects. The term "steroid" refers to the shape of the molecule. Steroids have four linked carbon rings as a backbone.

Most SARMs are far more suppressive and LDL-promoting than you'd believe. Please, please, please, if you intend to run SARMs, get pre-cycle, mid-cycle, and post-cycle bloodwork done. Have plenty of enclomiphene, HCG, Nizoral, and statins on-hand. Don't cycle often.

Very solid guidance and warnings - pay attention all. Yes I knew the blood system changes would be noteworthy on cycle. Fortunately I’m actually a rare case where my blood is so thin and slippery clotting and such is a non-issue. Definitely caution first with powerful compounds.

Yeah, maybe. Even so, the dangers go beyond the lipid profile, specifically, take care of your nuts. The HPTA is a delicate system, and ostarine is pretty much the only SARM that doesn't cause suppression of natural testosterone production. Everything else, including ligandrol, will suppress your natural hormone production. (although it's possible YK11 is also non-suppressive, we need more clinical research or broscience anecdotes to be sure about this).

You and I share the same perspective about further research is necessary. I still remember reading the BALCO book about one of the bodybuilders giving a steroid report on the Clear which was compounded from that old Nazi recipe. He said it was strong but harder on his kidneys than he liked.

I can say ostarine was kick ass for me and if I could do it again I would. Would I prefer it under medical guidance? Sure! On the other hand, I’m no stranger to the life.

Big protein/fat-filled/low-carb breakfast, light lunch or healthy snacks, ordinary dinner. I’m energized all day and often until late at night, whether sitting or moving. My weight has been stable (alas, on the heavy side) for decades.

I’m amazed people can function without filling the tank first thing. This paper resonated nicely.

i lost 30kg within a year and tried different things before and after, and eating a lot of calories in the morning was the only thing I could stick to.

and it wasn't a particularly good diet either. I started almost every morning with a donut and a chocolate croissant, along with a coffee, picked up from my favorite bakery. In case you're wondering how I lost any weight at all: I exercised about an hour 6 days a week. I would have no or only a small lunch, and then a decent sized (though still less calories than the breakfast) dinner.

It seems the exercise was the key here, but I tried the same thing with different eating schedules after, and it just doesn't work.

currently for example I'm arguably doing more exercise hours, just less intense (because I picked up climbing), but because there's free lunch at work and it's sort of a social pressure thing to take part, I can't seem to lose weight (I gained back about 10kg due to moving countries and being lazy). In particular I am very hungry in the morning and towards lunch, making me eat more than I probably would otherwise, and then I get absolutely insane cravings that disable any sort of objective reasoning apparatus in my head towards the end of the night.

These studies probably have a hard time controlling for psychological aspects. Just being watched in your diet and knowing you took part in a study is bound to have some effect on how people stick to it.

I'm always hungry, however eating one nectarine every 3 hours starting at 2pm reduces my hunger dramatically. I uss that trick as part of a diet to lose weight really fast.

I noticed a big difference in hunger by drinking a lot of water (3L per day), with the big downside of needing the washroom more often

OMAD is much easier in the evening because of the social aspect of eating There is a big difference between skipping valuable time with your family in the evening vs the morning. Your body soon adjusts and hunger is not a problem, especially if you drink lots of water and black coffee.

One meal a day

One issue I've had with fasting in general, is that it puts my head into a "wired" state. This is fine during the day, keeps me focused at work, but if I'm in that state at night time, sleep becomes a problem.

On a normal day I have a banana and black coffee, lunch is a super light sandwich or a cup of almonds, dinner is where it's at.

But man. If I'm bored at work, that 12PM - 3PM time I get ravenously hungry. It doesn't matter how much I've had before or after, the boredom just takes over. When we were in office I would try to play a quick game of ping pong or something to make it go away but my latest role has been remote forever and so I've had to find new ways to manage it (besides making work exciting every day...)

I think this is one thing where in person was better, because I could talk to people next to me and avoid that problem but in a fully remote setup I can't

If you're not allergic, I suggest peanuts as a snack. They're 'good enough' as long as you stick to dry roast/basic salted, they have decent-enough nutritional balance, and can be had dirt cheap.

I'd eyeball a single-ish serving of them and slowly snack on them (one at a time, maybe not everyone's preference) if I want something to help tide me over.

Yep, I used to use roasted almonds but peanuts work too. I just eat too many of them :)

Eating three times a day is insanity. I eat lunch and dinner, and any more and I feel bloated all day.

Cutting out a meal also puts more free time in your day, which is nice.

> Cutting out a meal also puts more free time in your day, which is nice.

For me, eating is pleasure, so the more meals the better.

It is for me too, but that's why I have to mantra my way to eating less!

I work out a lot and couldn't thrive without 4 to 5 meals. If I can't work out for a few days for whatever reason, it is indeed possible I go down to 2-3 meals a day. I do not enjoy the amount of food I need to consume, wanting 5 affordable meals a day that contain a good amount of protein and aren't too unhealthy, one is quite limited.

I envy your metabolism. I work out a lot as well, but have to skip breakfast each day or risk taking in too many calories. May just be a function of my age - in my mid 30s now.

The average man can eat, work-out and live well "below his age" with the right food and supplements (going as far as TRT).

Resting (basal) metabolic rate reduces only very slightly from ages 20 - 60. Older people tend to gain weight because they eat more and move less, not as a function of age per se.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abe5017

> Eating three times a day is insanity. I eat lunch and dinner, and any more and I feel bloated all day.

And anything other than what works for you is insanity?

Preparing meals takes time out of the day.

Breakfast or lunch never seem to take more than 10-15 minutes to fully consume.

I'm on OMAD and I usually eat around 5-6pm when I'm back from work, I don't feel hunger anymore during the day but I'm curious how would it feel switching to OMAD at 8am. A huge caloric intake to begin the day vs a huge caloric intake in the middle of the day would certainly be a difference.

I would have thought keeping the fasting state from sleep a bit longer (i.e. skip breakfast) would have had the most benefit of all the options. (this seems to assume some calorie intake for both weightings)

I don't have time to read it through but the EL strategy has 3,38 kilos instead of 3,33 kilos, so why does it state it is better to eat bigger meals in the morning?

Comment threads like this baffle me as someone who just like, eats reasonable meals.

I don't get it at all. There's all of these "strategies". Fasting? Skipping meals?

Mate, just cook food at regular intervals and make sure you don't sit in a chair all day.

No-one I know does any of this. Is it just that Americans spend too much time in the car or what?

Yes. We Americans are all morons and do this stuff for no reason. Certainly not some sort of larger systemic issue many struggle with.

Right, so what's the systemic issue?

Lack of exercise? Fast food? Non stick pans? Magic Texan air?

Why not address that rather than doing all sorts of unnatural restriction stuff?

Well, anecdotally, I moved from Texas to the West Coast and lost 30+ lbs my first year.

Losing access to good BBQ and queso were definitely factors. But I’d cite the inherent walkability of the cities I’ve lived in as the main reason. It gives me far more casual exercise now that the weather isn’t trying to kill me and I’m not surrounded by suburban sprawl.

the way our cities / communities are designed. Most Europeans will walk 10,000 steps in their average day; most Americans will struggle to get half that. It makes a huge difference over several years/decades.

Your anecdotal take on the subject is irrelevant.

Mine is that I took cautious care of what and when I eat for almost 10 years, not taking too much fat, lot of vegetables, tried to cut carbs, and low meat by choice. I was hungry very often, not losing weight.

A few years ago I slowly started drop it, mainly lunches due to very inconvenient hypoglycaemia occuring while taking care of the kids in the evening. So big fat pizza at lunch if i take care of the kid the evening, a little less food in the evening.

It's not something supposed to be a good idea, and I started to loose weight AND get rid of those hypoglycaemia moments, so I started to eat more and richer at lunch, with smaller diners.

I don't dare having any opinion on other's regimen, it's just a too complicated subject.

What makes skipping meals a “strategy” while your meal eating habits is (presumably) not a “strategy”?

The fact that nearly 100% of people I know and have ever met just eat breakfast, lunch and dinner and aren't obese?

Does that not indicate that obviously something is wrong extrinsically?

Could you please define “strategy” such that those people you refer to aren’t “following a strategy” but someone who doesn’t eat breakfast is “following a strategy”?

I eat breakfast when I’m strength training and don’t when I’m not, I’m not obese (16% body fat by dexa scan), so is skipping breakfast a “strategy”?

2022 and scientists still haven’t figured out that most obese people are obese because they eat when they are not hungry ie appetite is a completely irrelevant metric.

Appetite is more complex than an on-off switch or a scalar variable can describe. You can be painfully full but still "hungry" for some nutrient your body needs. This was me, driving from one fast food place to another to another. But when I instead filled my belly with dense nutrition, the need to binge went away. It was not, as I had been told over and over, just psychological. For me it was about curing the malnutrition that was making me continually unsatiated.

Yeah, same for me.

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