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Comment by yazzku | Hacker News Reader

> "And within Silicon Valley, plastic surgery has increasingly become a way for male tech workers to reach their physical goals in recent years."

I guess getting ripped is too mainstream in the bro-tech spheres.

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Huh? If you are short, then literally nothing else matters. Sure women take other (like social) cues to judge desirability, but short men are just not considered equal when it comes to physical attractiveness.

There's, as far as I know, no such analogous singular deal-breaker trait for women.

I'm like 5'3" and for me the answer is simple: anyone who would consider that a deal breaker isn't worth my time

That’s ruling out 95% of females immediately.

Not where the average height of women is 5’ or less.

Unfortunately that is undoubtedly a deal breaker for the vast majority of women. It can be overcome to a certain extent with personality and income, but in an already extremely competitive dating market for men I can understand drastic measures.

I think you're seriously exaggerating here.

I'm 5'3" and haven't needed to take 'drastic measures' to find women interested in me, both in real life and online. I would say that the majority of women 5'4" or under don't consider my height a dealbreaker, even if it's a disadvantage (which it definitely is). Yes, taller women are another story, but the average height of a woman in the US is 5'4".

So why does my experience differ with the conclusion you've drawn? My guess: I have a pretty good looking face, a reasonably fit body, and I'm a musician. In other words, height excluded, I'm above-average in attractiveness. And that's evidently enough to take away the whole dealbreaker thing, if it existed in the first place.

I know it's an n=1, but your statement is so profoundly certain that an n=1 is enough weaken it.

I can't upvote your comment enough. There is a lot of negativity in men that have a hard time dating. It's all the fault of some external thing that can't be fixed of course. While in reality, there are plenty of things you can do.

I would much rather be a physically unattractive guy than a physically unattractive woman. Women consider so many different traits that it's easier for guys to work on becoming attractive for women.

Face is a pretty big deal. If you have model looks - many women can overlook other attributes.

But again - should we use something that is innately genetic and unchangeable as a means for “compensating”?

You’re not even ripped. You just say reasonably fit - so I assume something barely above skinny fat. Your face (genetics) are doing you favors here a lot.

It also depends a lot on where you are and where you’re pulling women from. Personally - there’s not a single woman I know who would date a man who is 5’3”. Heck - most don’t even want to date a man under 5’10” and will only do such when someone in person sweeps them off their feet. (Relying on repeated forced interaction - they’ll never go on a date with them from OLD)

> Unfortunately that is undoubtedly a deal breaker for the vast majority of women.

Certainly in a speed dating or o stranger dating (e. g., online dating) environment, but maybe that's not your best game if that's what you are working with.

> but short men are just not considered equal when it comes to physical attractiveness.

Did a tall person write this? This is horse shit. If you're unfortunate enough to find yourself in a bubble where this fallacy actually applies, get out quickly. Or if this is you, and you're under average height, I'd legitimately suggest seeking counseling to try and overcome the short supply of confidence, perhaps discover the reason why you're projecting this onto yourself. There is an immense supply of people and an incredible variety of tastes.

There's real research on this. Someone posted this further up the thread:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-effect-of-male-and-f...

It's nearly a decade old. Societal and cultural shifts take a lot less time.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm. Social change can take centuries and I'd argue this trend is moving in the other direction.

Clearly you don't follow popular trends. What's popular and desirable changes frequently, and sometimes many times in the course of a year. This includes physical appearances. Social change can happen overnight.

I don't know man. I'm significantly taller than a few of my friends who tick off every box that's commonly listed as ideal traits in male partners other than height and they struggle to get a single date while I have random women hit me up while I'm just out shopping.

There's a large amount of incredibly shallow men based on all the guys I've become friends or acquaintances with over the years, and I can only assume that women are just as capable of being shallow.

Anecdotal evidence is a tricky thing. I'm over 6 foot and was the last to be married among two social groups in two different states, the vast majority of my peers significantly shorter than myself. And I wouldn't consider myself to be a slouch or unattractive.

There are many cultures that view just being a woman no matter how attractive or successful as unequal.

While true, this isn't about equality of the sexes. It is about attractiveness within the scope of the sex.

No you just have have a crappy personality. Being unattractive to idiots is not an issue.

>There's, as far as I know, no such analogous singular deal-breaker trait for women.

Obesity, smell, creepiness, being disfigured, in a wheelchair.

Being a nerd in tech, you forgot about that one.

Being a nerd in tech is absolutely not a dealbreaker if you are a woman.

> There's, as far as I know, no such analogous singular deal-breaker trait for women.

Age.

The age difference, rather. (Measured not in years but in percents. 15% max is a good rule of thumb.)

Not true, it's not the delta but specific age.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/08/online-d... (control-f "How Age Affects Online-Dating Desirability Among Heterosexual Men and Women")

https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/ElYAU3S0hhWWdqoxqv-4DRi1...

https://archive.ph/Bhwhe (https://theblog.okcupid.com/the-case-for-an-older-woman-99d8...)

https://archive.ph/dHvWf (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/15/style/dating-apps-online-...)

https://archive.ph/HqHNr (https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/advances/4/8/eaap981...)

> There's, as far as I know, no such analogous singular deal-breaker trait for women.

Race and ethnicity in shambles.

I doubt how much of this is journalists fantasizing about tech workers salaries and what they could be doing with it. They might even have say 1 anecdotal evidence they can point but it translates to "male tech workers... "

"Male tech worker contemplates funny sounding surgery" sounds better than "Male tech worker buys fancy car, gets tired of it, wonders if working late hours was worth it."

Interesting how it is either the recipient or broader social/cultural attitudes which are blamed, depending on the demographic the recipient belongs to.

getting ripped takes time out of day and/or steroids, breaking your bones and 'automating' the bone lengthening with a remote control device is way more efficient. and they can still work on their sidehustles/startups.

"One software engineer told GQ he spent the first three months after his surgery alone in his apartment and ordered delivery food during that time to go from 5-foot-6 to 5-foot-9."

That does not sound easier than spending the same 3 months with ~4 hours of workouts a week (which is enough to get most untrained people into pretty solid shape lifting), never mind the other health benefits.

I don't really think efficiency is a particularly good argument here :P

How much lifting is required over the next 25 years vs zero additional time/effort to be taller?

I'd take a better, healthier life over any surgery to break your bones and be more "appealing" to whatever twisted dating pool criteria, If you want more confidence, work for it.

> If you want more confidence, work for it

they did, by grinding 1000s of leetcode problems, to get a SV job, to get money, to pay for leg surgery!

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