Hacker News Reader

Comment by divtxt | Hacker News Reader

On the Mac, I no longer think about this level of workflow optimization because there's a much bigger negative that make these irrelevant: the Mac's Alt-Tab behavior.

The most basic web page development exercise - 1 browser window and 2 editor windows for html and css - is ruined because I can no longer MRU cycle the 3 windows.

I would say this is one of the biggest usability mistakes on the Mac. Sadly, Unity & Gnome 3 have both copied this. Meanwhile, I don't fight the platform but use it the way it was meant to be - keyboard + mouse. But I'll be shifting back to Linux or Windows for all non Mac/iOS development.

Update: thanks to comments pointing me to Witch. However, I still stand by my criticism of the built-in Mac desktop behavior.

View on HN

Yup this alt+tab switching behavior change is a real pain for me.I was under the impression that this is an issue only with Unity/Gnome3, now I got to know the actual place from where it all started. After seeing this change consistently across all the major UIs, I am starting to feel that this change in alt+tab behavior should have some strong reason for doing so and I am not aware of its actual purpose/use. I would be glad to know from someone on how this feature has simplified their work or improved their productivity.

I'm finding it a bit painful on Unity now too, but I'm wondering whether the problem is actually with the terminal programs rather than with the alt-tab behaviour. Most of the time I actually do want to treat all the windows of a single application as a group. But terminal sessions seem different to me - two terminal windows are not related closely to each other just because they are managed by the same application. Perhaps I need to find the setting that stops terminal windows from being grouped together...

I'm guessing the justification is that switching apps is consistent with the fact that the OS X Dock shows apps, not windows. Probably Unity & Gnome 3 made the alt-tab change to match their move to the Dock model?

Whatever the reason, they're wrong for us power users. And possibly for intermediate & beginners users as well.

I prefer the Mac way. I'm stuck using Windows at work, and it's annoying to have to Alt-Tab through the last five Excel (or mail or whatever) documents to get back to the editor. I much prefer to be able to go the application I want, then find the document within it that I'm looking for.

Then again, I'm not doing web development, so I'm not trying to cycle between my editor and one particular browser window.

I don't think it's a power-user vs. beginner issue; it's more of a workflow style issue.

It's not really personal preference if that's what you mean. It's about your work splits across apps & windows.

For example, chat is mostly fine. I'm either switching between multiple chat windows or mentally switching from chat to another task in which case I have no problem switching out of the whole chat app.

The same setup goes wrong when one chat window is for work, and I'm going back and forth with another non-chat work window.

No, I'm not saying it's preference. I think we agree, actually. By "workflow", I meant the way your particular work tends to split across apps and windows.

For me, it's a better default to switch entire applications than windows. There are edge cases, sure, like the chat one you mention, or different browser windows, but I'd rather just switch from Excel to IE to Outlook than have to tab through my history of open documents and browser tabs (curse you IE) to get back to my Outlook window.

It sounds like for you, it's the opposite: the better default would be to switch windows, not apps.

The question then is which is the most common pattern, but I don't know of any actual research on this. You can't generalize from personal experience, plural of anecdote and all that.

Try using cmd-tab to switch between editor and browser windows and cmd-` to switch between html and css.

Thank you! I had missed the cmd-` switching between app's windows feature.

Have you tried witch?

I have it bound to alt+tab. Super customizable, I have things like ignore all minimized applications, only windows in this space and ignore any window from adium.

Lets me easily switch between terminals, vim windows and browsers that are on the same space. Highly recommend.

Thanks - using these settings!

I get a warning that some apps might not like command-tab being taken by Witch - have you faced any issues?

Just the usual offenders, esp. MS Word and Adobe apps. They love to generate false "windows" like that goddamn "smart copy" doo-dad and palettes, etc. Witch allows you to work around all of it, if you're patient.

Have you tried [Witch app](http://manytricks.com/witch/)? One of my favorite

Thanks - trying it now! The MRU behavior is spot on, including across Spaces!

I'm finding the list style still has high mental overhead compared to the Windows/Linux style of bringing the target window (or it's outline) transiently forward.

Still, looks like it's 80/20 enough that I'll be parting with $14 soon!

You can easily assign a shortcut in "System Preferences" > "Keyboard" > "Keyboard & Text Input" > "Move Focus to next window".

Reply on news.ycombinator.com