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> Most of the engineers in europe that want to make money work for an american company.

From my experience, most of engineers in Europe who want to make money work are contracting. Contracting money can be similar to what the FAANGs offer here (outside of Switzerland), but taxes are often lower and you don't have to debase yourself with multistage leetcode interviews and intracompany promotion games.

However, the US companies may start to up their game here salary-wise - I was recently contacted by a recruiter of a Tier 2 US tech company who said that the TC for a tech lead position in their branch in Poland is around 220k EUR. I hope this is a part of a larger trend.

in many european countries tax will be 50% for contracting. to make 150k you need to make 300k... you cant take days-off,sick-days, might even need to make more for retirment match vs normal job... it is really not a good way to make money

>in many european countries tax will be 50% for contracting

This! Contracting is the way if your country of residence has low taxes for freelancers, but if its' the same or higher as a FTE then it sucks.

All the countries you mention apart from Bulgaria, Romania and Croatia were admitted in 2004, which is nearly 20 years ago now.

The effects took time to manifest. Now they slowed down.

it is europe. things go slow but once they are in motion... they first used those countries for lowering blue collar jobs (construction for instance) then white collar, the cloud/saas craze was an accelerator. the covid is one too.

Have you considered moving to those countries for better pay? It sad to hear pay is so bad in germany, probably getting quality education in romania or turkey might help? At the end of the day you are also free to move in to any of these countries.

you don't understand how economics work right? ask mexicans how happy they are to have high earning americans moving to mexico?

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-07-27/americ....

once you remove a country frontier, the market forces that are leashed to that country will be destroyed. radically transforming the country economy in ways that no one in this country but the 1% will benefit.

I think i understand. It’s a bit like removing borders destroyed car industries in a few countries, because germany could suddenly sell their cars and machinery import tax free. Radically transforming these industries in europe and america alike. Makes sense.

Hasn't this been the Dutch playbook, since ~1600?

"Look at how much more freedom we give capital than the rest of Europe!" etc.

Yeah I was taking into account cost of living increases and inflation when I wrote it, it's quite grim to live in Western Europe on regular dev salary :D

> it's quite grim to live in Western Europe on regular dev salary

No it's not. We still earn above average and (very) generally life in Europe are not grim.

it is not grim but getting a family-home with a dev salary is out of the picture for many western europeans. it wasn't the case one generation ago. american dev can definitly afford a house even in HCOL cities. for a similar job at AWS or Google you getting 550k+ in NYC vs 200k in London or Paris. just looking at real estate (which is number 1 cost) it is worth moving to NYC.

just to give you an idea: MIDTOWN next to bryant park 1 400 000k$ https://ibb.co/m4bPcXR

decent location in paris (definitely not top tier like next to Bryant park) 1 300 000 Euros https://ibb.co/kx8BXh2

why every time we say life became harder/more expensive we get comments saying its not that grim? this is how it starts. first steps are to reduce government benefits (retirement age further, unemployement benefits shorter,...-

London and Paris are expensive, but they are not the norm. Home ownership is still affordable to dual-income middle-class families in Western Europe, and there are plenty of nice cities to choose from.

In many larger cities, central locations are ridiculously expensive. Once you get further away from the center, prices drop quickly. Because the society is less car-centric, location has a bigger impact on home prices than in the US.

well city center or further in the city is 10kSQM in paris minimum that still puts the house into unaffordable territory with a european salary of ~80k for a senior dev. germany is a bit different because they have multiple job cities but take other countries. London vs other english cities job market will be night and day. Same for paris. You just don't get the same opportunities in smaller cities. Spain same. Portugal same. and the list goes on.

First, buying on a single salary is always difficult, because you are competing primarily against dual-income households.

Second, the problem seems to be chasing the hottest job markets. Those places are often unaffordable, because there is too much money floating around. They are good for people near the top, who can get very high compensation, as well as those near the bottom, who are happy to accept any job. People in the middle often find better deals in places with fewer opportunities and lower costs of living.

Man, every time I think I'm doing well, it turns out I'm making way less than I could be.. I'm apparently getting a crappy deal making $300k TC in the Bay Area with 14 years of experience

How many properties do you own? Few people i know in east europe own at least a second home. One owns four flats and land. Do you own at least the home you live in or is it bank owned? Not being rude, just asking if the above average salary actually brings above average living, and not just a new iphone and macbook pro every 5-6 years. Does it allow for one to grow into more than just a wage earner?

i totally agree with you and I didn't mean to sound like I was disrespecting eastern europe. If I was in my early 20s Id definitly consider moving to eastern europe and its a part of the world I enjoy personally travelling there for the culture and the nice cities.