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Comment by peter422 | Hacker News Reader

Yes I think people that don't have children don't understand how smart and manipulative infants can be in certain areas from a very very young age (3-4 months old), while at the same time being horribly stupid and incompetent in others.

But getting attention from their parents is one of the areas they are very advanced!

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I do have a kid and I'm pretty sure children aren't manipulative at all at 3-4 months old. They just operate on immediate needs and instinct. Manipulative behavior starts at around 1 year old, beliefs of small infants being manipulative are typically just projection (you feel angry because your baby wakes you up every 2 hours, so you think it's manipulating you, and that makes you feel better about being so angry).

Of course they are good at getting attention, but that's because they need attention. That's why nature gave them the ability to cry surprisingly loud from the moment they're born.

Thank you for pointing this out. I hope your honest and direct response opens the eyes of some of the people in this discussion to rethink whether their 4 months old is manipulative or is simply scared of being alone…

Perhaps the 4 month old is not "manipulative" per se, but it also cannot be argued that the kid is doing much of a cost-benefit analysis as to whether it's worth waking Mom and Dad up for this (whim/legitimate need).

Sorry to say. But this is not true in most cases! Manipulative thinking requires a sense of fully empathy which kids do not develop until they are 3 years old or even older! If a 3 months old is „manipulating“ you it was pure coincidence!

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