Google employees alarmed that the company suddenly expects them to do work
futurism.com
futurism.com
In all seriousness, if my bosses at G wanted me to do work when I was there, I would have had to explain to them that I would love to do work, but there are about 10 other people at G whose job it is to make sure that I don't do any work. The only work that gets done at G is done by virtue of herculean efforts from engineers and frontline managers to convince a mountain of other people that their work is a priority. After that, one offhand comment from a VP or an SVP can get your entire project cancelled.
Quote: https://twitter.com/gvwilson/status/1552090373283090432
>Reminder: every single one of the sources cited by the neo-Nazi responsible for the Christchurch massacre had a store on @Shopify, and the company refused to deplatform any of them.
The tweet you linked to is doubly funny, since it was in response to Dan Price, who is under investigation for rape and physical abuse. Should Gravity Payments deplatform itself in today's guilt-by-association world?
Presuming t the facts that OP has concerns about are undisputed they're not alleging a crimes. But crimes have never needed to be the basis for boycotting something. Moral opposite has always been sufficient.
You want to bypass public decisions through proxy of corporations without public approval. That's a totalitarian/authoritarian future where a small group of corporate overlords rule general public.
Source: am a Shopify engineer
HN has a very strange employment bubble: there's an extreme distribution towards FAANG-tier companies, a decently sized tail for startups, and then virtually no representation of the places where 90% of people are actually doing software research and engineering: consultancies, contractors, teams within non-software companies, and so forth. Not all of them are well playing (and some are downright terrible), but plenty are.
I think the first step is probably identifying what exactly you'd like to do: smaller companies generally mean specialized roles (even if the engineers are themselves generalists). From that, there are probably local meetups and conferences in your area that are hosted or attended by smaller companies, consultancies, etc.
Huge companies like that make it really hard to feel like anything you do matters.
1. We had 26 teams and 16 meeting rooms, and we often didn't have rooms for meetings. How was this fixed? They created a new meeting room.
2. After the discovery of "low productivity", a new meeting was created, obliging all teams to participate in meetings on "the reasons for low productivity"
3. The most productive week is the week when all scrum managers have been in training for one week.
But the accusations always came to the development team...It was hell on earth.
Probably something similar is happening at Google.
The “low productivity” is a feature indicating low priority effort is appropriately prioritized. A key challenge is when something without a strategic purpose/value is released and becomes a beloved product that eventually must be depreciated, like Google Reader. It is much better to develop and never release than to release something without strategic benefit that causes problems in long run.
But, if they’re all working on business irrelevant things it’s unusually low risk to fire them all for cause and hire new employees.
Google also has big impact focused culture, if employee doesn't produce business relevant impact, he is not rewarded (bonuses, promotion).
Edit: or do you mean that previously there was room for slackers as long as they didn't care about promotion, and the difference now is their jobs are at risk?
The best anecdote I ever heard from an SRE was "the VP was chagrined when I told them it didn't matter I was in a nerf war, because nothing was broken or needed to be fixed, but they still saw my point and let me continue" (I used to work in an SRE area that overlapped with an SVP's preferred meeting room so Susan Wojcicki was always getting pinged by a rogue nerf bullet).
As for slackers? Sure, when I joined around 2008 there were definitely folks who were slacking off. in fact they got rid of sabbatical because so many people were taking it then coming back and quitting.
Yes, I think they collected lots of mediocre employees through the aggressive hiring.
Also, some of them may be not productive by common metrics (say bugs closed, lines of code implemented), others are good at those metrics, but produce high quantity/low quality work, and make more damage than impact: systems are overengineered, buggy, etc. I think second type is likely makes companies suffer much more than first one, they are much harder to trace and fire.
Anywhere where there are committees that decide who gets promoted are not impact focused.
Xoogler here.
I see how people may view Google as having an impact-focused culture, but I would argue that Google has a perception-of-impact focused culture.
Google historically has sought to hire clever people-- clever people that understand and care about optimization. It should be no surprise that Googlers also applied their cleverness to optimize their behavior toward what they understood about the reward system called perf/promo (some of those understandings weren't necessarily correct, but when enough people share an understanding or behavior, correct or not, it can have a reflexive effect on the system itself).
Google has reached a critical mass point where values it cultivated in its people through these reward systems now drive the culture and common behavior.
There are a few major components to this:
Perceived Impact: Perf/promo-optimizing Googlers optimized for things that they understood or believed to be perceived by promotion committees as "impactful." This does not mean that those things are actually impactful, but perceived as impactful.
Impact isn't Technical Skill: What counts as "impact" and the need for impact varies by an employee's ladder (job family) and their level. Generally for individual contributor SWEs, levels were meant to be representative of an individual's technical skill/ability and leadership. Generally, assessing and gating a technical individual contributor's performance rating and promotion based on business impact doesn't lead to fair or correct outcomes for the person when the business impact isn't associated or driven by that individual's work. Also, from the reviewer's side, a person's work/contributions generally needs to be viewable as the driving factor for the impact portrayed. This creates a bias toward things that can be seen as 'technically complex' or 'technically challenging.'
Perceivability and Overemphasis on Visibility/Measurability: Many important things in life and engineering are not easily measurable, nor can the explanation of how to appreciate the "why this matters" be condensed into ~300 words. You have likely had scenarios in life where your intuition, experience, or judgment for what the right or good thing to do made something obvious for you, but the explanation would probably take too many words to fit into a promotion packet or a few minutes during an short interview, so you'd have to select obviously understandable and relatable examples when sharing with others -- This drives a bias toward doing things that can be easily perceived and visible to group of reviewers in a calibration and promotion committee.
Lowest Common Denominators: "Perf" (performance review) ratings and Promotion are separate processes. Performance ratings are recommended by managers, and calibrated/adjudicated amongst a set of managers from the same calibration group, typically people from your own team or adjacent teams. Promotion nominations are adjudicated by small committees of ladder (job family) representatives drawn from across the company (this was later changed to representatives across the person's Product Area/Division as the company got bigger). Sometimes the important things for a person to do are contextually related to the dynamics, circumstances, or needs of the local organization, but those very things wouldn't be appreciated or understood by a person in a similar role elsewhere (see previous paragraph), so a person often has to make a tradeoff on where to apply their time -- doing the right thing for the team/organization, or doing something that could be more generally perceived as impactful by a committee of people that don't know you, probably wouldn't appreciate why fixing ___/paying off technical debt/etc was important, and might not understand that the nature of your work is very different where you are than in other teams/orgs/product areas.
Overburdened and Sometimes Lazy Reviewers: Calibration group participants aren't volunteers, but promotion committee members are. Both groups often have more packets to evaluate and assess than they have time to commit while also doing their regular jobs. In "perf" and the promotion process, the person being reviewed typically has to author their own statements for why their work represents the characteristics of strong performance for their level and/or the next level -- those statements can often be a lot, or hard, to read. Checking and verifying that a launch happened and that a person had associated code (CLs) and design docs is a lot quicker and easier than reading through a bunch of code, design docs, etc and trying to verify the "impact."
So you could imagine why "I launched _______" becomes a common focus for perf/promotion optimizers, and a common understanding amongst the larger community on what's important to be rewarded...
Years ago, they tried to temper the bias-toward launches with a need for actual "impact" -- this led to a common saying of "Landings, not launches."
We end up with an amalgamation of technical complexity and launches as demonstrations of impact instead.
The problem is... The visibility and measurement of "landings" usually takes time, and the amount of time needed can be well-beyond the horizon of when a regular-level employee needs to be able to have their performance and promotion assessed. The effects of some things may take a year or longer to see. And as said above, measuring actual impact isn't always easy.
In some ways, it's both terrifying and comforting that highly competent people in difficult disciplines are also like this.
(Edit: what's the objection to this comment? Usually I can tell, here I have no idea)
Obviously damage to the brand does not mean their users will immediately go to zero. You can see the damage to their brand that their project cancellation strategy causes in nerd forums like this all the time. Now probably that's not a big concern in the large scheme and they've decided the impact is reasonable, but if people think public moves like these are not considered carefully considered in this light, they just don't have a grasp of the reality of how corporations manage an asset worth hundreds of billions of dollars.
And the idea that because the balance may not be hurting them now, that the marginal costs and benefits for increasing the number of projects and project failures remain static and therefore increasing them can only help, is just laughable, and you don't need an economics degree to figure that out.
So I try to give the benefit of the doubt and give the benefit of the doubt even this kind of cheap rhetorical device and illogical point, but it's hard to imagine someone actually thought they were making a good point.
That’s why assumed it wasn’t sarcastic. As a sarcastic comment it feels flippant and dismissive. So I thought a better perspective was that they were referencing Google’s social and messaging products.
I have no way to know but fortunately, it matters not.
Like yes, Google is probably not going to kill GCP. But it's not doing very well compared to Amazon, and then there's no guarantee that any product within GCP is going to exist for the long run. To think that a major part of your cloud infrastructure might just be dropped, that makes it too risky for me personally.
There's a general expectation that if I'm going to take a risk on a product, that they're in it for the long haul. Google is too big to be "in for the long haul" on really anything except their core products.
But I'm not personally looking to use anything _new_ that Google makes. Wave, reader, goofke+, hangouts, and a bunch of others came and went. Basically when compared to behemoths like search and Gmail most really good things are complete failures.
Unfortunately this reputation is starting to ge an issue outside, and inside, the company. Outside I'm personally reluctant to use anything "Google new". I can imagine that inside when you're working on your 3rd or 4th cancelled Google project, you passion is, well, dulled.
The last major project they got out the door was what the handheld device? That they are taking losses on? And how much of that was contracted out?
I assumed Valve decided that competing witu literally Apple, and Facebook, for VR headware wasn't clever.
makes you think...
Sometimes hiring great researchers and letting them do what they want pays off.
AT&T I believe kept a research group for much longer than that and they only invented or co-invented the transistor, the laser, radio astronomy, information theory, Unix, the C language, and the photovoltaic cell.
Almost like research is not a guaranteed thing. Kinda like you're trying to figure out the unknown.
I think it would be hard to replicate this with modern day researchers. There just isn't the same pressure or importance that wartime provides.
- This is an "I know a guy..." story from a podcast. I don't have any blog posts or written pieces for you.
- The setting: Intel in the 90's
- Allegedly, they hired a team of PhDs to look into designing some "mobile" software -- pretty new back then. No deadlines, management essentially just said "go look into this"
- The project went on for 2 years. Code was designed, but no code came out of it. They more or less just blew millions of $$$.
[1] https://softskills.audio/2016/05/02/episode-9-deadlines-and-... Roughly 8 minutes and 20 seconds into the podcast.
My own org was different, people were very productive and I struggled to keep up but this was the exception. Maybe because were in Infra and focussed on results oriented systems research. Most teams in infra were like this, infra teams were hard.
Everyone else was a different world. I did not envy them but its no surprise with the headcount they have, they are struggling to justify the numbers. They can cut 30% of the workforce and still be fine.
Then again, given what they've done to many of their products, especially their search engine recently, I'm not surprised. I just hope they don't end up trying to save themselves by stuffing in even more dark patterns and other user-hostile crap.
2018 operating income margin: 22.9% ($31.4b op income)
2021 operating income margin: 30.5% ($78.7b op income)
And they nearly doubled sales in three years, from 2018 at $136.8b in sales to $257b at the end of fiscal 2021. That's something beyond astounding for a company so big.
This reeks of Sundar and top management worrying about their jobs, trying too hard to please Wall Street.
2021 was a record year because they juiced the monetization on search and youtube to the max.
2022 still seems to be fine so far since the brand equity hit from juicing up the ads hasn't made it to the bottom line yet, but it will.
>CEO Sundar Pichai reportedly told employees that "there are real concerns that our productivity as a whole is not where it needs to be for the head count we have," and "we should think about how we can minimize distractions and really raise the bar on both product excellence and productivity."
>a manager [explained] that if next quarter sales "don't look up, there will be blood on the streets,"
>"The communication has been rude," another Googler told the outlet, "and it's threatening people to make sure we hit numbers.
>"Volume has picked up and the busyness of the workday has picked up with how rough things have been," one unnamed contractor told Insider. "I haven't heard of reductions, but there are definitely no additions."
What a weird concern. Increasing head count decreases productivity (per person anyway). Why would you expect it to increase?
I have to imagine at some point the marginal benefits are near zero, and Google probably reached that scale years ago.
Also, this is a cheap and bad reblog of this Insider article: https://www.businessinsider.com/google-hiring-freeze-cuts-pe...
@dang, are these submissions now acceptable?
Why they can't do something so simple as, I don't know, blocking messages in foreign charactersets I don't understand, block messages with obvious spam senders and subjects, .. I mean, come on, I don't get 10 Norton receipts a day, guys.
...but at the same time, this feels like the angry ranty version of the story that [a certain set of] Googlers deserve.
If people fail to work a healthy amount on a day-to-day basis at a company, that speaks more to the company than it does those workers. People like to work on things they find interesting. Google is failing by not putting workers on interesting things, or things they want to work on.
It's not even about interesting work, it's about the fact that for each person trying to do X, there are >10 trying to make sure that X doesn't get done without their approval.
We were asked to check in with the accessibility folks to make sure everything was good with our emails that we were sending. It was a completely plain-text email, so just about the most accessible you can get, so I didn't expect any issues. We had a QA person who was blind look it over informally and said it was great.
The accessibility people said we had to undergo a formal review, and they could do it in six to ten, nbd.
I asked what unit of six, like six weeks? No, six to ten months. And we would have to stop sending email in the interim, for sure, definitely not permitted.
After all, our emails didn't even have all the graphics and corporate branding (and features to make the graphics and corporate branding "accessible") that were required. No, there's no guidelines, the committee has to review it.
I informed them that the CTO of the company was using the file transfer service for sending out his weekly meeting slides. No more complaints were received, and I left the company well before their timeline rolled around for review.
Would be interesting to know if the service was still operating and sending plain text emails.
I’ve been getting nothing but pushback for a very critical project. Driving me nuts.
Two weeks ago I just decided I was done with meetings, doc reviews, pretty much anything that was holding me back. Time do it my way.
In that time I built what started as a proof of concept and is shaping up to be a beta. (Tool is internal facing.). Solves a hugely critical, long standing issue. Boom.
Now I’ll spend the next three months begging to get it kept alive.
But apparently I’m just lazy.