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I don't understand how planes are seizing productivity when the nearest competitor -- an illegally driven car -- is about 5 times slower. Yes they have quite a bit of overhead during take off, landing, baggage claim, driving to the airport, security screening, etc. But what else can reduce a trip's time from days to hours? The amount of time wasted in that overhead compared to the time gained is minuscule.

Unless you are going a long way, it may well be faster to drive. For me: 1 hour drive to the airport, 1+ hours at the airport for check-in, security, etc, 1 hour at destination to retrieve baggage, get a rental car, and get out of the airport... plus the time of the flight. If I can drive in under 6 hours, I'll seriously consider doing that rather than deal with all the hassle of air travel.

That's exactly how I view, although I put a pretty heavy negative weight on the hassles of navigating around airports, finding parking, gates, etc. With driving I feel a lot more in control. Driving is also a continuous activity, there's minimal transition times (e.g. With flying you've got find a place to park, find your gate, etc).

Except that if you drive for 6 hours, you can't talk on the phone and you can't use your laptop. Your point doesn't make sense to me: if you're willing to drive for 6 hours, you're also willing to stop working during all that time, while if you flight you'll always find some time to work, at the terminal or in the plane.

It's actually reverse: you can talk on the phone in a car, but not on the plane (at least for reasonable rate).

If driving you can talk on the phone for the whole 6 hours. I did something similar at least once.

Also, the driver can't use a laptop, but because of the driving activity itself, the driver is not so easily bored. Boredom is the main reason why I power on my laptop on a plane. Also, the other passengers can easily work on a laptop, watch a movie and so on. If you've got a 3G connection, the passengers can also go online - even I as the driven, I often find myself checking my emails while driving, plus I'm connected on Skype for the whole ride. The only problem here may be the comfort of your car, as you'll have problems having a laptop in your lap if the car is a small one. I also never get anything done on a plane when trying to work, especially because I don't have Internet connectivity, so I would rather listen to Podcasts or read a book and when driving Audio books are great btw.

So, related to comfort, I always prefer a couple of hours in my 10-year old Audi A6 over a plane ride. If the car ride is longer than some threshold, like the mentioned 6 hours, I do agree that a plane ride is better.

Change your name to "bad_driver" already.

> even I as the driven, I often find myself checking my emails while driving

Why would you ever do that? If you don't care about your safety, at least make sure you're less likely to kill others, please...

Oh, cut the drama. I use text 2 speech.

I guess that even for short messages rather than interaction, some of this applies: http://www.psych.utah.edu/AppliedCognitionLab/cdir489.pdf

In other parts of the world their are trains, which are faster than cars and provide tables and often electricity and wifi, making them a pretty compelling substitute.

There's a lot of empty space in between the West and the East, which is where plane travel is the most compelling, and train travel would still likely not be.

There is a lot more travel North-South in the USA than there is East-West. Just look at the way the US highway system is setup. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/1926us.jp...

Note: Number of lanes paints a much stronger picture, but I can't find a good map of that.

Thanks a lot for this, it's a really cool map. Note that this is just the US numbered routes, so it's pre-Interstate.

I'm quite fascinated by the interstate system; I think it's one of the more amazing things this country's managed to accomplish in the last century. I admit that I draw my sample set from just my experience -- I grew up in the SF Bay Area, go to school near Chicago, and spend summers in Seattle, so all my travel is huge E-W distances -- but I think even if you're right, you have a good argument for N-S rail systems and there's still enough E-W travel that air travel is still quite necessary.

I don't think there's many places were a train is a good substitute for a 5+ hr flight.

No but for replacing quick hops trains make a whole lot of sense. Drastically less messing around at each end and train stations are often right in the centre of the city. Add to that the increased comfort a train provides and it is an easy argument to make.

I live in Washington, DC and Washington, DC -> NYC is a common trip. The train is a much better way to go. From Washington, DC, it's a short metro ride to get to union station. The train takes about 3 hours to NYC but it gets you right into Penn Station. This is much better than having to go to a suburb to get to the airport and landing in another suburb and having to get downtown. I'm a fan of trains. And... rail travel isn't dead time at all. I'm able to work on my laptop and I don't have to worry about the person in front of me putting their chair back full tilt crushing my opened screen.

The competitor is planes without the TSA, not cars.

By your reasoning, it would be wrong to complain about cars which have a speed limit of 40 miles an hour, since "the nearest competitor" (bikes, horses?) would still be still worse.

In another, more macabre calculus:

1.6 billion hours per year

= 182648 person years per year

Divided by forty (perhaps the average number of years of life expectancy remaining for fliers)

= 4566 remaining lifetimes stolen

= equivalent of 4566 deaths

which is more deaths than caused by 9/11. Every year.

That's a ridiculous way to look at it.

Why? What common units would you convert it to?

Out of genuine curiosity, why is it ridiculous? Stolen time is stolen time, no?

All you do your entire life is what you're confined to doing on an iPad in an airplane? It's not that huge of a loss. You're not dead for half an hour on each flight.

No, but I sometimes wish I was dead for just that half an hour.

Haha, you make a good point.

Nonetheless, flying could be an amazing experience. But fliers are some of the least happy people because they are treated either like criminas, children, or cattle. If the time isn't quite stolen, it is at least spoiled.

All I can say is to watch Louis CK's rant about how everything is amazing and nobody's happy. I fly several times a year and I honestly enjoy it. People who complain about their flying experience need thicker skin and more problems in their lives.

The economic term is deadweight loss. Not so ridiculous, as that is product capacity lost to society.

If 1 billion people take a 20 minute nap every day... that's equal to 38,000 years wasted time every day... which is about 20 lifetimes every HOUR! OMFG nobody should nap!

Except without sleep, we all die. The question before us is this: without TSA, do we all die?

They said nap, not sleep. Dying from a 20 minute nap is pretty unlikely.

How about 'the government should not mandate that everyone must nap'... does that sound reasonable?

How many airports make you spend an hour or two going through security? When flying, I usually spend an hour or two in total at the airport, but that includes check-in, security, waiting for and boarding plane, then de-planing and sometimes waiting for luggage. Not to mention the transport time to and from the airports. Security and safety is a pretty insignificant part of that time, and waiting in line at the airport the price you pay for getting cheap airfares.

You can buy yourself out of this miserable experience by renting a plane. Of course, you might still get a security briefing by the pilot, as part of a checklist that he's already gone through hundreds of times while wasting precious time.

Israel.

No, really. Especially iff

- you are leaving the country (...)

- you are a foreigner (that is: Everything but a citizen)

Everybody around me (including the airport) tells me to arrive ~2.5 (some say 2. Some 3) hours early. The procedure consists of

1. waiting in line forever, waiting for the luggage to be scanned

2. a passport check in that line, asking you questions about where you're from, where you stayed, what you did in Israel and if you happen to carry weapons or presents that might be bombs. If they are inclined to waste some time they are going to ask you for more: Do you know people in Israel? What are their names? Where do _those_ live? What's your connection ... it's something between a 3-4 questions interview and a nice interrogation

3. Your luggage was scanned. Someone is going to tell you to go to that place over there and unpack it. If it's your birthday or Fortuna is with you: Go to step 5.

4. Some guy/girl is ripping apart your luggage. Some are gentler, some really completely mess everything up.

5. The ticket counter! Get your ticket..

6. Wait in line before the security check of you and your carry-on stuff, metal detector, shoe removal station. If you don't have a laptop with you, go to 8

7. Your laptop is suspicious. You have to wake it up from suspend. Close it again. They x-ray it three times. They need to take it to another room, for a special treatment. After 30min they return, the laptop is not suspended anymore. It's off. You are supposed to prove (again) that it's a laptop and not a weapon of mass destruction. Powering it on, booting, logging in is not enough. 'Open a file!'. If you open a picture or a random text file in Notepad, you're good to go.

8. Proceed to the gate, please. You are late for your flight. Remember that for next time and get to the airport earlier, stupid.

Yes, it's that bad. Nothing is invented here, all experienced by yours truely. Not all steps are that bad all the time, but .. I wouldn't bet my ticket on having a lucky day..

Imho this is better then

- Taking off shoes

- Going through scanner-of-the-day

- Can't take any liquids on the plane.

And same procedure applies also to Israelis as well not only to visitors.

Hmm.. Hope you didn't take offense with what I wrote. I see no personal insult anywhere in that text and certainly didn't intend any. That said:

- I had to remove my shoes at the Ben Gurion airport. Granted, only once so far

- Agreed (scanner)

- Braindead liquid rules still apply (maybe softened vs. the US? I cannot judge that)

And while Israelis have to do the same thing: If I travel with a coworker (we usually arrive separately) they pass all tests right away and have a couple of shortcuts (especially concerning passport control, inbound, for example). My experience with tourists, visitors and my own trips says that - well - foreigners start on the 'Might be a terrorist' scale at 3 out of 10, just because.

No offense.

>- Braindead liquid rules still apply (maybe softened vs. the US? I cannot judge that)

I guess that it might apply more then usually when you fly to US. Flies to Europe/within Israel ok. You can buy whatever you want after security check and bring it with you.

Passport control shortcut, you probably mean electronic system. There is one like this in US for US citizens that I can't use :(

And yes, foreigners start with "Might be..." but usually it never goes beyond questions. "Luggage scan pass" Israeli might get only if they (scanners) are too loaded. In case line is short everybody goes through it. And Israelis can move to "might be" quickly in case they give "bad" answer. I once couldn't answer how old I am (I never know) and was questioned for 40minutes.

JFK/EWK and SFO.

Two hours total? I wish I could do as well.

When I fly (as infrequently as possible), I have to budget at least 5.5 hours from my front door to boarding the plane. Here's my time budget based on 10 years of flying out of New York City from Newark (and occasionally JFK)

  |-----------+----------------------------|
  | Time (hr) | Activity                   |
  |-----------+----------------------------|
  |       1   | Drive to airport           |
  |       0.5 | Find parking               |
  |       0.5 | Shuttle to Terminal        |
  |-----------+----------------------------|
  |       2   | ** Sub total **            |
  |-----------+----------------------------|
  |       1   | Check luggage              |
  |       1.5 | Security                   |
  |       0.5 | To gate                    |
  |       0.5 | Wait at Gate               |
  |-----------+----------------------------|
  |       3.5 | ** Sub total **            |
  |-----------+----------------------------|
  |       5.5 | ** Total **                |
  |-----------+----------------------------|

Hmm. Strange to get downvoted for this. What about my post made you think it was unworthy or inappropriate to the discussion?

I agree that security these days is by far overkill, and even agree with many of the deadweight statistics in this thread. But 5.5 hours is highly abnormal. I fly fast, I generally leave my house about an hour before my flight. I'm lucky enough to be a short 10 minute drive from my airport. Security usually takes me around 5-10 minutes at SJC, and 10-15 minutes at SFO. I can fit two weeks of clothing (fresh shirts for every day, two pairs of jeans, fresh underwear and socks for every day, a jacket and a blazer) as well as all my office supplies and toiletries into carryon baggage, so I never check bags. All in all it's usually 45 minutes from my front door til I step on the plane. It's not hard to make flying fast, it just takes dexterity with the security. The TSA themselves recommend showing up 90 minutes to 2 hours before your flight, but it's very doable to show up 30 minutes prior. I fly about once a month for business, and I've yet to miss a flight.

We just call a car service since we're close to a couple of airports; while proximity and being dropped at the terminal save time, even if all goes well we're still talking at least two hours.

I didn't down vote you, but I fly out of JFK too. For an international flight, I hop in a black car from manhattan 3 hours before the flight. For a domestic, I leave my apartment 2.5 hrs before the flight. Others may have downvoted because they thought you were exaggerating.

> What about my post made you think it was unworthy or inappropriate to the discussion?

The numbers are high enough that some people (not me) may be downvoting you because they think you're exaggerating.

Maybe I'm lucky not dealing with flying out of new york, but I usually leave about 2hr before boarding. I expect steps to take about:

    to airport: 45min (subway, subway, shuttle)
    check luggage: 15min (usually omitted)
    security: 15min
    to gate: 15min
    wait: 30min

Individual steps can take longer, but they've not taken long enough to make me miss my flight. I just have less waiting at the end.

I guess I've been lucky with airports. What do you do for 1,5 hours in security? Standing in line, or is it the security check that takes so much time?

That's a great way to look at it. Safety has costs associated with it. So there may be some benefit to all these precautions, but if the probability adjusted benefit doesn't outweigh the costs then it's inadvisable to continue incurring the costs.

Delta actually does the seat back (or on the overhead monitors depending on the age of the plane) thing during taxiing to the runway. You can actually go watch it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgpzUo_kbFY

The camera angles and lighting are a bit surreal when watching it after having been up for 96 hours though.

There's also the safety issue of the items not being stowed which are then made projectiles when a takeoff is aborted or the runway is overshot on landing. I don't want my Kindle embedded in someone's head because I had it out during landing.

(It's probably really hard to get the blood off the screen)

I would submit that the average wage of fliers is much higher than $10/hour

How many average human lifespans is 1.6 billion hours?

Lets say we use an average of 15 minutes for a person to go to the toilet. This includes getting to and from the toilet etc.

For ease of calculation we say that each person goes to the toilet twice during a workday.

And there are roughly 7 billion people on the planet.

That gives us 0.5 hour per person per day * 7 billion people = 3.5 billion wasted hours.

At a conservative estimate of $10 per hours, that's $35 billion per year. This does not include money wasted on water for flushing and washing hands!

It's clear from this that we have to stop people from going to the toilet during work hours...

</sarcasm>

It's clear that I get benefits from going to the toilet. I'm not so sure about the TSA.

15 minutes to go to the toilet? I think you need to see a doctor.

Not if you bring your toilet computer, aka smartphone.