Ask HN: Where are the good platforms for contract work? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Where are the good platforms for contract work?

168 pointssph141 comments

I've been looking for contract work for the past couple months, and it's been dire. All the job boards are looking for full time employees, and on Hacker News the only recommendation is Toptal.

Is there really no other platform for decently paid contract work that's not a complete race to the bottom? I find I'm close to having to abandon 10 years of consulting because I have no idea where to find anything else than full-time employment.

The other two job boards I've been keeping an eye on are mostly about React and other frontend roles, with offers few and far between. Linkedin is similarly dire for contract work.

Is Toptal the only option for someone with 16 years experience that wouldn't want to work for peanuts? Or just going back to being an employee?

(In case anyone's reading that's looking for a senior Elixir/Rust/Go engineer/sysadmin, resume's in my profile. I'm based in London.)

EDIT: excellent responses so far, thanks. I like how many are suggesting going through recruiters, while the common motif on other similar posts is to avoid LinkedIn. I've started cleaning up my Linkedin profile this week, and I already have a dozen recruiters setting up appointments with me. I will try and explicitly request contract jobs with them.

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One thing that makes me sad, is the old "contract agent" seems to have gone the way of the dodo.

I clearly remember these folks. They acted in almost exactly the same way as literary or artist agents; searching out opportunities for their clients, and setting up interviews, etc. As a hiring manager, I dealt with them frequently, and had friends that used them.

They used to make a lot of money, because they would charge a percentage of the rate they negotiated for you.

Nowadays, it looks like they have been replaced by "race to the bottom" sites, like Upwork, or these contract companies, that hire you at a fairly low rate, and shop you out for very high rates. You get to "enjoy" the crappy treatment most companies give to contractors, but at rates lower than the employees that sit next to you, shooting spitballs at you.

I encountered this, when working with recruiters, after leaving my last company. The ones that didn't immediately hang up on me, after finding out I was older, started trying to lowball me into being one of their contract shop employees. They would love telling me that I shouldn't ask for too much, "because of my age," before "generously" mentioning that they happen to have a contract shop that would be willing to do me the huge favor of "throwing some work at me."

It's a real slime-pit, these days.

Doesn't the US have an active contractor market like the UK? In the UK there are lots of job boards with a contract filter and many recruitment agents deal exclusively in contracts rather than perm roles. Is this different in the US?

Care to direct me to these UK-specific job boards for contracts?

Subscribing

Same

https://www.cwjobs.co.uk/

https://jobserve.com/gb/en/Job-Search/

Filter the results on 'contract'.

Hit me up for tips if you're thinking of going contract. I've been in and out of the game for years and making more than double than I would as a perm.

> Nowadays, it looks like they have been replaced by "race to the bottom" sites, like Upwork, or these contract companies, that hire you at a fairly low rate, and shop you out for very high rates.

I can't help but feel like these platforms are like Uber for programmers: devoid of all meaningful professional contact and ultimately the commodification of programming as a job. The power dynamic has shifted to give most of the power to the buyer. Sad times indeed.

And yet it's never been easier to replicate the core source of value for so many multi-billion dollar companies. I know that doesn't capture all the realities, but how many CEOs when asked what their company has accomplished could simply say "we created a webpage". Stange times.

What’s a multi-billion dollar company who’s only created a web page?

The real question isn't "are they?" it's "why were so many of us so confident it wouldn't come for us?"

For sure. Reminds me of this: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/leopards-eating-peoples-faces...

Partly because a lot of us have made good money building platforms that increase buyer power through commodification (most of e-commerce, plenty of other things). And partly because of persistently low standards in the profession that I see little enthusiasm for working together to raise.

It's especially worse when they are required by TOS to not engage in communication with bidders/clients outside the platform.

This would be like, for example, if you set up a job interview from a listing at Indeed, and then Indeed demands that you do not use regular email to stay in contact with the employer, you must use their own messaging system. And you can't even voice chat elsewhere unless it's a link that is provided by Indeed so they can be aware of it.

Just the walled garden aspect of freelancer websites is what turns me off.

Were contract agents really a thing for software developers?

I was just thinking there could definitely be a niche like that, there must be a bunch of people that would love contracting but hate bizdev etc.

Up until know I hadn't heard those ever existed.

Same. I would be way more interested in contract work if I didn't have to do all the work to find clients. I would trust a human being more than a website whose only goal is to lower my value while raising theirs (ex. Upwork).

I can assure you that they really were a thing. We used to joke that they were "pimps."

But I worked for one company for about 27 years, and never used one (except when hiring).

Yes. I dabbled with one a couple of decades ago. I didn't find it to be all that fruitful of a relationship, though, which may be why they have fallen out of favour.

Back in the late 90s it was definitely a thing. I'd argue that part of what diminished it then was the permatemp lawsuits over who was an employee vs contractor. Many BigTech companies swung away from working with independent contractors for a period of time.

I feel the same having worked for a couple contracting companies. I think if I job hop in the near future, which is unlikely given the recent layoffs, I'll go for a company that is building a product. I'd rather the golden handcuffs than the freedom of mobility.

Same, building product feels great and stock options are usually worth it

My recruiter(in the UK) sends me contracting offers as well. Am I missing something about what a contracting agent does?

They used to be very similar.

Recruiters in the US don't really seem to work that way. Instead, they have contract shops, and hire you as an employee, or 1099 (contractor without the money).

I am very disappointed in what has happened to the technical recruitment industry. It used to be full of older folks, that obviously made great money. These days, it seems to be all young folks, and they don't seem to make anywhere near as much as they used to.

Sometimes - especially after the IR35 misery - an agent might also come with an umbrella company that will readily employ you for the duration of your contract for a cut. People usually tended to avoid these solutions due to tax inefficiencies. Not everyone though, I knew some people who chose comfort and didn't want to deal with the admin of an LTD and constant invoicing (however small inconvenience that might be), so they just went with the umbrella. I presume this is now a much more popular solution... An umbrella can also be provided by your accountant.

We have a mix here in aus.

The recruiter does the recruiting and provides access to an umbrella company but it's optional and up to you. The umbrella company is a separate entity that provides the service to the recruiter, 99% automated so fees for it are basically nothing.

The umbrella handles witholding tax, super payments, pay slips and a few compliance things like confirming you've watched your OSHA video quota for the year.

The responses in this whole sub-thread are a bit strange regarding the UK.

The typical model is for end clients or employers to hire a recruitment agent to find them either contract or permanent staff.

For contract staff, the agency will invoice the customer, keep approximately 10% and pass the difference to the contractor.

A contractor can choose to work as a LTD company or through an umbrella organisation depending on how much admin they want to take on and requirements of the client such as IR35.

Consultancies are a slightly different model where they own the outcome and more of the risk, and are perceived to be bringing IP and value as well as just the resource. This is where there is a the big delta between what the contractor is paid and what the consultancy charge.

In some cases, the agent can of course be disintermediated and the end client can recruit people directly.

In 20 years working in the London contract market, I have never heard of a situation where a contractor hires an agent to go out and sell their services. You can however build a relationship with agents to remain front of mine when their customers (end clients) have a relevant opportunity.

In a way, contract agents are operating as a match maker and making a living by taking a percentage of the day rate, so it is partly perception who is their customer. However, I think it's fair to say that they are hired by and represent the interests of the end client rather than the contractor.

I know you didn't ask all of these questions, but it seemed like the best place to respond :-).

> A contractor can choose to work as a LTD company or through an umbrella organisation depending on how much admin they want to take on and requirements of the client such as IR35.

IR35 is not a 'requirement of the client', it's HMRC's judgement of the relationship between contractor & client that matters.

True, but it's up to the client to decide if they are willing to take on the risk.

I think you've just had a bad experience with recruiters. To me that's exactly what they do, helping you find the best position and taking a cut for it

I wonder, does this still exist in other countries/markets?

They're alive and well in Northern Europe at least. I'd say a majority of contracting work is done through them since they somehow get exclusivity deals with big clients like H&M, Scania, SAAB and the like. They charge around 5-15% (almost always 10% though) of every invoice.

Before you balk at the number, consider that during my almost 5 years as a solo contractor I've spent _zero_ hours doing sales. None. When I want a new assignment I send one email and within a week or two I have a 6 month contract.

Are they contract agents, tho, as in, you (the developer) employ them to find you a gig? Or are they staffing agencies, as in, you work for them, they invoice the client and pass the income minus their fee to you?

I've seen plenty of the latter but hadn't heard of the former before.

From my experience, it's practically always middlemen. I don't see a problem though - this is easier for me. I found a few good recruiters that I keep in contact with, they know my requirements and anytime I ask they have a good, well-paid project for me. I don't see the practical difference.

> They charge around 5-15% (almost always 10% though) of every invoice.

That's nothing to balk at. In the US, being a contractor is like selling wholesale, and being an agency is like selling retail. I'd expect the contractor cut to be 30%-50%, and the rest to go to the agency.

Yeah, 5-15% sounds awesome. I was recently considering doing some project-based work through a consulting firm and their cut was more like 60%. Wouldn't have to do any sales, but that seems absurd.

I wonder if it is a US thing of employees having too little power. A couple years ago I heard an interview on Fresh Air [1] where a woman talked about her experience cleaning houses. She said she at first made $8.55/hour while the agency charged clients $20/hour (later it was $9.25 and $25, respectively). That means the agency got 57% (63%). I told my wife if we ever hire someone to clean our house I'm asking how much the person doing the work gets paid, and if it's not above something like 70% of the total, we're not doing it.

[1] https://www.npr.org/transcripts/689611873

In Europe it's very usual to charge consulting rates that are double what the employee is paid. After the employer-paid portion of taxes and insurance it's necessary, the actual margin is just around 15-20% then.

In what universe should the agency get 70% while the person doing the work gets 30%?

Where do you find these contract agents? Or which are some popular ones?

I don't think they exist, anymore.

Whenever I mention them, I'm scoffed at, like I believe in unicorns.

The end client is usually the one hiring and paying these people though, not the contractor.

In a way they are operating as a match maker and making a living by taking a percentage of the day rate, so it is partly perception. However, I think it's fair to say that they are hired by and represent the interests of the end client rather than the contractor.

Huh, I’ve just moved to Northern Europe and had no idea this was a thing here (from London). I guess I’d better start Googlying.

Yes and no. Contract companies massively overcharge so your contract rate can still be market rate.

8 years ago in London I knew about some companies charging 1000+£ per day to customers and paying the contractors 400-600£.

You should still avoid those places, but many contractors didn't have the contacts to charge higher than 400-600£.

Upwork et al have really made it easy to resource on demand for a myriad of needs, but they don't really fill the gap where knowledge, skill and trust are needed on. a high-priority project. There's probably a lot of opportunity if you can find someone who is working to fill demand for work, even if they're not an agent per se.

Funny enough, I'm finding myself doing this gap too. Last December I ended up consulting as a fraction CMO/VP for mid- to late-stage startups. As the business has grown I've had demand for more work than I can fill, especially related to software, data infrastructure and analytics. At this point I'm starting to bring people into projects to augment what I can offer and frankly can't do it fast enough.

I know there's a lot of people doing similar work as myself, so looking through your network and checking with people who have found their niche as a consultant are probably a great resource.

We did this at our small dev/design studio for about 5 years. It worked amazingly well. The contractors always had work and the "contract agent" got 10% of the contract in perpetuity.

The downside was that we were a fairly small operation and so we only had one agent. When he left to pursue his own business venture we were unsuccessful at replacing him and ended up closing up shop.

A platform that facilitated this type of arrangement would be valuable indeed...

Yeah, but there must be a reason they all left.

I suspect that the fault lies in the hiring companies.

I was very successful on UpWork. However, it is not something you can jump into with no work history on the site, like "I have 16 years experience so my rate is $125/hr." People don't believe you when you say that. They want to see proof from a third party. So you need to start lower ($30 to $50/hr), stay in a niche, and successfully complete jobs while gradually raising your rates.

When someone sees glowing reviews and completed jobs, you become the "easy button" and they will pay more to decrease their risk. When they see 10 completed jobs with 5 star reviews, all mentioning the exact type of work they need, they can be pretty sure the 11th will be successful. It's possible to charge $125 or more an hour on UpWork and have to keep your settings updated so that you are not spammed with invites.

This - I recently hired someone for 80$ an hour for a quick Sharepoint Powerblabber fix - one online meeting, he pointed me to the solution in 20 minutes, charged 30 minutes - everyone was happy.

All very professional - answered promptly knew his stuff + the necessary meet and greet in the beginning.

It may also be a bit strategic from his side. You know he is reliable and doesn't overcharge now. He could be very useful going forward.

I have history on Upwork, and pretty good one. But I haven't used it in 6 years, and my rate then was around $60/h and it's double that now. But I keep hearing how terrible and underpaid it is in here, hence this post.

I would give it another shot. Since your history is older you likely need to keep your rate at $60 for a while and complete a few jobs. But UpWork has the biggest market and there are plenty of people out there willing to pay for developers with a solid history.

People say it's underpaid or terrible, but part of that reputation comes from people doing one or two jobs and quitting. Plus, I've hired developers on UpWork and a lot of people suck at writing proposals. I have a lot of advice on that too.

so whats ur adivce on writing proposals

Do not use UpWork. They take a big cut, the clients you get are generally garbage, and they can close your account (and even keep your funds) for any reason.

do you suggest an alternative?

No.

Thanks for adding all that value.

You're saying I have to offer an alternative each time I criticize something? Why?

No, I am not, but someone explicitly asked you for an alternative. But it's nice to have an alternative ready, otherwise you just sound bitter. Plus, you are not adding to the discussion, the reader is stuck with the same original question - where do you find contract work?

They asked me for an alternative, and I'm giving low value comments by saying I don't have one?

Not all comments need to add to the original discussion. Saying I do not suggest someone uses Upwork and giving my first hand experience of using the platform adds some value to someone.

Stop backseat moderating.

I used to use UpWork extensively 10yrs ago, with lots of success. We tried to use UpWork recently and cant even create an account. There is no real way to figure out how to make it work or what the issue might be. The site has gone downhill fast.

Upwork fees, and also being able to close your account for any reason (happened to me with 20 reviews, all 5 starts except 1), make it a deal killer.

I sound like a shill for Upwork (promise I'm not!). But the fees for long-term clients (>$10k in earnings) is 5%. If you go on your own and bill through a system you will likely pay 3%. So it's not that different.

I pay 0% ... wire transfers.

Do you use the spyware tools they want you to use ‘for your and their protection’? As a senior engineer and not in kindergarten, I cannot imagine anyone with over a year or so experience doing that.

No I never used any of that. I would have moved on to another job if someone insisted on it.

Also, the other way around, when you hire a senior and they insist on using that crap, they are more likely to scam you as you cannot dispute hours made ‘if the recorded screens show code’.

Toptal is trash if you're in the US or in EU. They have shit hourly rates and you compete against developers from anywhere in the world, so you can't ever match the rates they are throwing in.

If you are in the EU, check out Freelancermap, Austin Fraser, Hays, Malt, Darwin Recruitment, Upper.co (for less pay, but startup work).

I think one thing which is restricting your search is your tech stack. I'd honestly concentrate on finding something for Go, as I think you'll have the easiest time with that. You can try https://www.golangprojects.com/ and https://golang.cafe/ for that.

Not only that, but their interview process is pretty insane. They wanted me to grind leetcode and do a week-long project and didn't give a lot of specifics about how much I could expect to make on the platform. Felt like a major time-suck without a lot of upside.

They asked me a few times throughout the process what my rate was and it was never hinted that it was high, but when I actually got through I was pinged immediately and frequently about being "open to feedback about my rate". I think they want to have US people on offer even if they don't expect to pay any of them what they're expecting.

Agree, there's just easier ways to make good money than this. I think the upside of pure freelance is only having to deal with my own code, but it's still not worth the hoops these companies make you jump through.

It was a complete and utter waste of time to apply and go through the process. I didn't know any better when I just started as a freelancer. Would never do a process like this again.

Toptal had me go through a paired technical test which I did ok but had a small minor fix about 1-2 seconds after the clock chimed 30 minutes. Failed me at that point. I never bothered to re-apply, mostly because I've been busy with client work. Interesting to hear that they not described favourably here. I was under the impression that this was the platform where much higher rates are acceptable.

I had the exact same experience. 30 minutes paired leetcode type test of moderate difficulty. My solution seemed algorithmically sound and efficient, but the test wasn't passing at the buzzer. The guy failed me and we said our goodbyes. As soon as we're done, I slowly look at the problem without the distraction and see that I just need to swap two variables. I email the guy back barely a minute after we hang up, explaining that I just figured what was missing. He emails me that he's sorry I have to try again in a few months. Three years later I'm here on HN learning that I dodged a bullet.

I'm in UK, and I've never heard of any of those sites you've mentioned. So it's much appreciated.

No problem :) For UK I have also made some nice experience with "Spinks", which is a UK based recruiter. I didn't have a project with them and the pay was more like B+, but the recruiters were nice and the projects sounded interesting. Might be worth a call.

We had a guy from toptal for a while. He was okay, but nothing extraordinary. The odd thing is that nearly everyone they sent our way was of Eastern European extraction, with a demeanor & grooming more military than nerd, which I found most peculiar.

Absolute True. Some folks fall to exploitation trap thinking this is freelancing. I would say if someone is really very junior, then surely can try, otherwise - don't bother. Otherwise you would need to ask a question why not hybrid/fully remote full time company. There are lots of platforms/companies that purely focused on exploiting freelancers with "divide and rule" logic.

Hey! I did freelancing for a long time. It takes a while to build up work, but ultimately the only sustainable model is word of mouth. But you have to get your first few clients...

There's lots of ways to build up work, but the way I did it was by creating a few fun projects and blog posts that ended up on HN. Each one had a "I'm doing freelancing work!" ad on them. (You're kinda doing this right now!)

It might not work for everyone, but I had by far the best success by creating something that would intrigue the people I wanted to hire me.

Contracting platforms are a race to the bottom.

Successful freelancing requires a lot of outreach. Start with your network and then move on to cold outreach to companies that might need your services.

Hint: If a company has full-time job postings for your work domain, it means they need your services. You can pitch them on contract work and offer to augment their teams on a contractual basis while they search for a full-time hire.

I get about 50 of these cold emails a day. Almost all of them are wanting to provide contracting services to me. Most are just offshore body shops. I could very easily hire contractors for discrete work given my company’s posture on this, much easier than hiring FTEs, but there is so much noise it just all goes to spam. What I wouldn’t give for some trusted source of signal to just take my money, honestly, but a cold outreach is likely not it.

What high-signal channels are you open to?

I have been contracting for the last 20 years, never used any platform (Toptal, etc.).

I'm based in Europe and I have mostly worked in EU countries, except for a couple of very lucrative contracts in the Middle East. I can see you are based in London: London has tons of contract gigs, especially in the financial sector (mostly using JVM languages I'm afraid). If you can move around, Switzerland has also lots of contract work at the moment - and low taxes.

Take a look at jobserve.com for UK contracts.

What has worked for me so far:

- Find some good recruiters from reputable hiring agencies. Once you establish a relationship with them, they can provide a stream of constant contract opportunities. You can accept or refuse, based on location, rate, tech stack etc.

Unfortunately, this is easier said than done, because the bar for entering an hiring agency is quite low these days and you get all sort of cowboys. Personally, I prefer to work with older dudes with at least 10 years of experience in the fields (reverse ageism!).

- Never, ever leave a company slamming the door. If you do a good job, they will call you back

- Linkedin lists contract gigs sometime, I have never really got anything out of it, but it's good to keep an eye

- At some point, I wrote a book that landed me a couple of good gigs. I'm not suggesting to write a book, but you can try to establish yourself as an authority is some field (Elixir, Rust, etc). Again, easier said than done

Ultimately, the hiring agencies are the gateways to the majority of contract gigs, so you really want to talk to them.

Good luck!

> at least 10 years of experience in the fields (reverse ageism!)

I think this is somewhat distinct from ageism. You could find some relatively young folks with that level of experience and folks who are much older with less.

can you name those swiss and uk agencies?

There are no good platforms for contract work.

There are two routes: 1) Get in touch with local hiring agencies, there are tons of contract positions 2) Become a studio yourself and take on clients (much harder than #1)

Good luck.

I've worked with A Team (www.a.team) for about a year now and I've had an amazing experience with them so far. Really interesting projects, good pay and their team is very supportive with getting you up and running. Can't recommend enough

Clickable link: https://www.a.team/

It says invite-only. Do they invite randoms or do I need to find someone already on there?

Generally they are pretty quick to send invites when asked.

Their selection criteria seems to be whack. I literally built and sold a startup but they had the nerve to reject me :D

I'm sorry to hear that. May I ask if there was any leet code as part of the interview?

I am subscribed to their site, but it's been mostly frontend engineering offers since I signed up in July.

I got my last (entirely back-end) role with them after I spoke to one of their recruiters on Zoom, and she ended up matching me with a role. Might be worth trying to pursue?

It's the best contract site I'm aware of. Last year I had a long-term gig for $150/hour and this year had an offer for $200/hour.

Is that as a 1099 or w2?

1099. Payouts happen globally. Once you reach your first 400 hours building with A.Team, you unlock guaranteed, bi-weekly payments without the need to wait for the payment from the company you work with.

I joined a few months back and got matched with a pretty stellar contract shortly after coming onboard. There's a pretty wide variety of work on the platform so you can be as picky as you like (want to work on crypto? or desktop apps? etc).

Jobs seem to be mainly split between full-stack, front-end, and mobile but there's quite a few openings for soft skills like PM work.

I've been working in software consulting for over 10 years. I've worked for 5 different agencies, some small, and some household names. Every single one of these companies has hired out to independent consultants (or smaller agencies) willing to take on part time, hourly work. You have to remember most firms that are billing are constantly juggling the chicken and egg of having too much billable work in the pipeline or not enough.

My advice - figure out your core niche (i.e. GCP, Go, Rust) and reach out to 2-3 firms and propose your services and availability. Look in your LinkedIn network for any 1st or 2nd connections working at consulting firms.

>I find I'm close to having to abandon 10 years of consulting because I have no idea where to find anything else than full-time employment.

I'm sure that many of the clients you made happy during those years will gladly work with you again or make introductions. Between you and an unknown, you have a leg up. That's one of the advantages of consulting and having a track record of always delivering.

If you want to start your own thing, I've written a tiny Twitter thread:

https://twitter.com/jugurthahadjar/status/131066829330549965...

It's also good you included your contact information in your profile.

I did a quick search for companies using Elixir. One site for example: https://elixir-companies.com/en

You could reach out to them and do the same for Rust, Go, etc.

This drew my attention:

>Starting as a freelance consultant, was hired in 2018 as Technical Director to oversee the engineering aspect of the company. In 2020 took on part of the administrative concerns, such as managing the employees day-to-day and preparing for a smooth handover in case of sale.

You can't mass produce people who can do this. That comes with real world experience. You can package that Interim Savior experience and make it lucrative. What are the signals and selectors of an organization that needs that?

You can also reflect back on all the entities you served during these years and can segment by sector/industry (and many roles), by one role across sectors/industries, or by problem. Then decide the approach you want to take depending on your preferences: maybe you like to work within a certain sector, maybe you like to work with certain roles (devs, salespeople, marketing people, designers, etc.)

This is a very insightful comment and there's a lot of good points in your Twitter thread, so thank you.

I’ve been a freelancer / consultant in the UK since 2013. Here’s the approach I took.

Initially, I stuck with the ‘permanent’ day job and start freelancing part time, in the evenings. This allowed me to focus on building a network of connections without the stress of needing to find a contract that would pay for my cost of living.

My first contract was through upwork (when it was called elance). I found a UK-based client who needed a small job doing for $25/hour. This merged into a new opportunity with the same client. 9 years on, and I’m about to go back to working for the same client once more, on a different project, at a much higher rate.

In parallel with this, as the pressure was not on to earn a living from freelancing (yet), I didn’t feel the need to fill every spare hour with billable work. Instead, I signed up to a bunch of different meetups, and volunteered to help run a couple of them. Through this I built a network of connections and opportunities, which led to _every_ other client I have worked for. I can’t stress enough how important this was for my freelancing career - visibility is everything. Tell everyone who will listen that you are a freelancer and you are open to new opportunities.

The contract market is rich and lucrative in the UK but you can’t expect to be handed opportunities via platforms. As others have mentioned, the best gigs come to those who put themselves out there. Speak to other developers at meetups and conferences, tell people you are a freelancer and eventually something will crop up.

Good luck!

Best of luck, I recently perused this path and abandoned it pretty quickly. I found a couple of companies looking for contractors that seemed to be a good fit, however, they kept delaying their projects and telling me they'd get in touch in a month or two (presumably over economic uncertainty).

I get the sense that yes, contracting platforms are a race to the bottom, but also this is a pretty bad time to be launching a freelance career.

As a person who is starting a new freelance career in 10 days with 12 years of experience, I’ll keep an eye on the answers in that thread :)

oof. what made you make this jump. I might have to go down this path soon due to family circumstances .

I’ve wanted to do it for a long time (having my own hours, being my own boss, etc.). I’m in a comfortable financial situation, so I can offer myself the luxury of trying, and worst case scenario roll back to a full-time job if it doesn’t work for me :)

I kinda feel the opposite.

When you can afford to risk it, become your own boss.

When something hard in life is coming up, it's better to be employed.

Less stress, more benefits, lower chance of being fired.

If time is a concern I'd recommend some part time (albeit I realise it's not that popular in the USA).

Contract work is about relationships.

Since you have 16 years of experience, talking to all the people you have worked for and with over your career might be the best place to start.

As a rule of thumb, a good working hypothesis is that there are already enough contractors/consultants in the market to meet demand...or another way of thinking about it is that established businesses already have logistical solutions to their normal operational requirements.

This means that random potential clients won't be excited that you are suddenly available. They already have consultants. Those consultants work hard to keep them as clients.

Easy button websites for finding consulting work are races to the bottom because new consultants only get the worst work. Good work is regular well paying work and regular work means there are a regular cadre of consultant/contractors in that workflow.

Quite simply, contracting/consulting is not driven by performance but by sales. The easy button is Amazon Mechanical Turk.

Good luck.

There are no platforms, or no good ones anyway.

You have to network on your own.

As a fallback, you can approach a larger agency and see if you can subcontract through them on some of their projects.

Looks like you’re based on London, so first thing is to change resume to CV when speaking to UK based people. Calling it a resume will out then off for timezone, tax and cost issues.

Also, you’re in London so start meeting people - go to tech meet-ups, go to marketing meet-ups and tell people you’re a freelance developer.

Networking is the way to success in the freelance world. Also reach out to old employers and clients and ask if they have work.

(The reason I say marketing meet-ups is that many marketing agencies need dev work doing but don’t want devs on staff - I get freelance work for this)

Also speak to other agencies as offer yourself as overflow resource.

> Also, you’re in London so start meeting people - go to tech meet-ups, go to marketing meet-ups and tell people you’re a freelance developer.

That's a good long term plan, and one I really do not enjoy, but that's a shortcoming of mine I am aware of.

The question is "where can I find job now?", not "how can I avoid this situation again?", though yours is very good advice.

(Also thanks for the CV/resume tip. But if one is confused by me using an American English synonym for CV and doesn't notice the header of my PDF says "London, UK", I wouldn't be optimistic about their hiring process.)

Many recruiters/hirers would simply not click the link when seeing resume imho. The aim is to reduce the reasons for them to not click through.

Oh and bold all the technology keywords on your CV. Make them pop off the page a little so if someone if just keyword scanning it’s really easy for them to pattern recognise you as a suitable candidate.

Best of luck!

> Also, you’re in London so start meeting people - go to tech meet-ups, go to marketing meet-ups and tell people you’re a freelance developer.

Seeing the disparity in pay between UK dev roles and US dev roles, I would assume one would do the opposite and lean into presenting yourself as someone who can work on projects for US companies. Curious why you would recommend positioning for UK work.

I just assumed that OP was looking for UK based work. If looking to work with a US company then keep it as resume.

Note that even on TopTal clients usually prefer full-time contractors.

You might try job boards such as RemoteOk (assuming you don't want to come into client offices) and just reach out to see if a company may be okay with that.

Platforms are all crap, consulting agencies will cut in half your potential profits, recruiters have jobs with terrible rates.

You need to network in person - which is hard, thanks to the BS lockdowns of the last few years.

Try to leverage previous contacts / other contractor friends. Eg. My current client (which I found via contacts from a previous jobs) pays pretty decent and I'm referring my friends there. Before that I was referred in some nice places by friends.

Networking is everything, don't feed recruiters or contractor resellers.

How did you find jobs in the past?

I just found a 6 month contract at £600/day after a 2.5 week job hunt. 2.5 weeks from first message to a recruiter to getting a verbal offer. The actual contract took another week to come through.

I just went to all of the job boards, searched for contract jobs and applied by sending my CV with no cover letter. Four recruiters got back to me and one of them had a contract that was at a good company.

Just send out lots of applications and you'll get something.

It would be interesting to know what type of jobs were you looking for if you're willing to share? Without context we can't really tell whether you found a good gig impressively quickly or settled for below the market rate to start something sooner.

I know experienced contractors who've been looking for software development gigs around that level for much of this summer. Some crazy proportion of the roles being pitched by recruiters or advertised on the boards seem to end up just being imaginary. Even for the ones that are real it sounds like multi-week delays for each step in the process have been common because everyone's been going off on big holidays again this year. So much time wasted even for good people who normally have no trouble finding work.

I could probably write a book with all the excuses from recruiters I've heard about too. Possibly the most creative so far was some new government initiative that was due to run out of the Cabinet Office where apparently no-one actually knows which IT projects are still going ahead after the change in government.

I think platforms for contract work are designed to turn things into "a complete race to the bottom".

I’ve always wondered if this model would work:

Find an extroverted person with a sales type personality who seems to attend all kinds of tech meet ups and offer them a 10% referral fee for any work they find you. They’re already networking constantly.

It should - but their cut is more typically 25%. You could also learn to do that networking yourself and save the commission. If you need work, get active in users groups for the tech you use. I've found several gigs that way.

Long time UK contractor/freelancer here, I've also done a lot of hiring in the UK.

The problem over the past few years has been IR35 which has effectively gutted/killed the UK contractor market (including lorry drivers and temp roles).

Because of this many companies will only take on contractors within scope of IR35 which drives down the day rate. So employers have found it easier to focus on permanent recruitment.

Your best bet is to look for contracts overseas, or just move out of the UK. I've had some success with braintrust (usebraintrust.com) but with US orgs

I'm always put off by sites like these, and eg turing.com, where all the featured developers appear to be from much less well-off countries. It seems like it might be code for low rates and exploi ... wage arbitrage.

I'm a westerner now living in such a country, and the reality is that living a western-level lifestyle, particularly as a foreigner (international schools etc), is actually more expensive than living in your home country.

https://www.moonlightwork.com/

https://clouddevs.com/ is Latin-america specific. Came up in "Toptal trying to sue us for saying there are Toptal alternatives that cost less" (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32472398) last month.

You have experience in languages that have relatively limited hiring pools. My advice would be to look for full-time roles that need help in these languages, email the hiring manager/company, and offer your services part-time or on a contract basis. I would bet a lot of them would be happy to get someone in the role quickly than have no one at all. Good luck.

<shameless plug> I saw the same problems with part-time/contract work and I'm in the process of building a job board specifically catered towards this. I have many startups lined up based on some of my writing on https://parttimetech.substack.com/. Hope to get the job board up shortly. Check it out if interested. </shameless plug >

A few related insights (some you've already mentioned):

* existing job boards are not built for this

* there is actually a pretty wide range of what contract/part-time work could look like. my hope is to help companies explore this a bit further to create better outcomes for employers and employees

* employers need help seeing when contract/part-time work is actually the right tool for the job. i hope to emphasize this more in future posts. most just don't think of it as an option.

What are the good platforms?

Emailing the CEO of small, local software companies with your experience and your rate.

Also, posting your info on the monthly HN Who's Hiring Freelancers post.

What rates are people charging these days?

See this thread on the topic from a week or two ago. 350 comments

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32701641

Neither of those really work well, unless you have rapport with that CEO.

Same with that HN who wants to work thread, you are just racing to the bottom and making it easier for others to emulate your own posting in terms of skills.

I don't really have a good answer, I really think its down to mostly luck or you have a skill market fit

I shared what has worked for me. :)

I've repeatedly found small clients (think a few days a month) on the monthly HN Freelancer thread at my normal, US-centric, senior+ rates. Sometimes it's clients by proxy, where a thread reader will connect me with someone else they know that isn't the original HN respondent.

My response rate improved considerably when I shifted from highlighting my tech stack to my actual effectiveness. I haven't had sufficient availability to pursue HN-based leads in about a year, though.

I've recently talked to these guys https://forward.id/. From the hiring manager's perspective the conditions look attractive.

If you’re trying to get a decent rate for your services, you’re likely to have better luck relying on things that are somewhat differentiated by you: your network of past satisfied clients, your particular technical and sales skills, your particular location and ability to be on-site for key meetings.

If you’re looking to avoid all the sales work and differentiated value you can bring, then you can jump on the platforms, but then expect to be compared against everyone else on the platform rather than against everyone for whom a trusted associated has vouched for.

Hacker News seeking freelancer threads can still be great. I’ve found two assignments this way, including recently. Majority I find via recruiters though. Avoid “platforms” they’re all awful

Never worked with them but I have with a contractor who had good things to say: https://www.a.team/

Another route is to apply for full time jobs and ask early in the process if they’ll consider hiring you as a contractor. Give your honest reasons why you want to go this route. If they continue with the interview process, knock their socks off so they can’t afford not to use you at whatever terms you want.

Don’t use a platform, they’re designed to screw you. Idk where you’re based but it’s best to take on work you can find through people you know (even tenuously). You can usually find work by bugging people you’ve worked with in the past (or if you’re new, friends from university or school). There is ample work to go around, but it’s not out on those boards.

Why/How would it screw you ?

lakecityquietpills.com.

Oh, not that kind of contract work? Well then...My first stop when hiring extra help is a tech-focused temp agency, here in the SF Bay Area I've had outstanding luck with Robert Half. Their recruiters speak tech and understand my company's needs. Temps I've used/interviewed really know their stuff and have been happy with the arrangement (pay, flexibility, possibility of benefits through the temp agency). As far as I've experienced they treat customers and their temps fairly as they understand the value of all involved. I'm contacting them this week for a database setup gig. Downside is buyout cost if we really like the temp and want to hire.

For finding contractors, schmoozing at conferences and personal network have been the best, but that takes time. Have spec'ed things out on Upwork and had good work done (I've never based contractor selection on low price).

Best of luck on your search!

> All the job boards are looking for full time employees, and on Hacker News the only recommendation is Toptal.

I've just spent 30 second on jobserve.co.uk and found 3 contract positions for Golang developers in London. Which job boards were you checking out?

Someone I know has recommended YunoJuno. Edit: It looks like it's UK only.

Working on an idea that would largely be reputation based starting with a community that then provides work to each other. https://m3o.org

I've talked to the founder of and have been keeping an eye on Maasive: https://joinmaasive.com/

If you're in the EU, Malt is great

I am a manager in huge transnational outstaff/outsource/consulting service provider responsible for a group of customers with projects and individual consultants.

I make my living building, fixing, running and dismantling IT organizations.

I'd like to share my vision of why it's happening with the market.

1. Supply and Demand: Demand for individual contractors is low, supply of people who want to be self-employed is huge. Means customer has leverage in negotiations and thus race to the bottom. Demand for FTE is huge, while supply is low. Means employee can dominate the market and ask for high compensations.

2. Cost-To-Company: Everyone compares cash on hands with rate billed to customer. While company bears cost for extra taxes, benefits and internal services (Payroll, Operations, Internal IT e.t.c.). That's could be called direct costs.

3. Cost of developer/employee acquisition (On average pass rate is 1:20 (hire:Active Candidate) for developed countries and 1:90 for developing countries, and 1:200 for some consultancy roles) consisting off interview cost, recruiter bonus and other expenses.

4. Cost of customer acquisition: Mostly time spent by salesmans, architects, analysts, managers, designers and also representative costs. (Some presales can take 3 years, and all payed from company pocket)

5. Scale and Complexity: While it's still possible to find solo assignment there is a hoard of people who wants to take it, and it's a tiny part of market. 80% of a market it's a long term team play. And customer wants to have a team starting on Monday.

6. Economy of Scale and Offshore: Service providers are able to keep back office costs low while providing flexibility, scalability and risk management.

7. Bureaucrats: There's a ton of bullshit work needs to be done to get a contract (Legal, compliance, certifications), individual contractor theoretically can walk the route, but it will take forever and cost a fortune.

It's harder to compete with leviathans than ever before, but all is not lost. Here's the recipe.

1. Specialization. Focus on one language (Like Java) or even one technical problem (Like migrating to microservices). Focus on one business domain like e-commerce.

2. Sales and Marketing. Make your own blog, linkedin page, youtube, attend conferences, get certificates, talk to your ex-colleagues, managers, customers in a search for new assignments.

3. Market. You probably should avoid big-co's and focus on SMB's. Your ideal company should be small and unregulated internally and externally. Ideally Decision maker should be as far from IT as possible and inexperienced as manager to buy your 2. Sales and Marketing.

4. Convenience. You should emulate convenience to hire you, get yourself a personal assistant and lawyer to make paperwork. Choose trusted location to work from, to eliminate legal risks.

5. Jack of All Trades. Advertise as expert, work as problem-solver, talk to business, make documentation, code, test, build infra, sell your solutions.

6. Play long - stay focused. Onboarding to some roles might take even 6 month, no one needs jobhoppers. Work 1 contract at a time, avoid multi-contracting, better to jack the rate.

7. Build a team. Maintain a pool of few dozen of trusted partners to take on larger engagements.

8. Lazy support. Provide on demand support for solutions you have delivered for stand by cost.

Maybe I have forgot something but for the most part this is it.

YunoJuno

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