Real World Divorce
realworlddivorce.com
realworlddivorce.com
> Fully two-thirds of women and half of men said they were "very" or "extremely" willing to marry for money. The answers varied by age: Women in their 30s were the most likely to say they would marry for money (74%) while men in their 20s were the least likely (41%).
> Of course, when the mercenary marriage proves disappointing, there's always divorce. Among the women in their twenties who said they would marry for money, 71% said they expected to get divorced -- the highest of any demographic. Only 27% of men in their 40s expected to divorce.
Quite sobering.
The study found that people who are willing to marry for money at any price would on average require $1.5 million (in 2007 dollars). Most people answering the survey don’t have option to marry for that kind of money (it’s roughly the 95th percentile for family wealth) and the vast majority of actual marriages don’t involve a wealth transfer of that size. So the survey is really telling us that most people don’t marry for money, but maybe they would if you dangled the opportunity of a lifetime in front of them. It’s telling people to imagine themselves inside the plot of a Lifetime movie and asking them how they would behave.
It's a pretty good point though that it's just a hypothetical survey, and that most people imagining that opportunity don't actually have it, so it's more of a fantasy kind of thing.
http://www.realworlddivorce.com/California
Surgeon making $275k ends up on the hook for $87,600 annually, which totals $1.5 million over 18 years.
I speculate that if you stratify they survey responses by income, you’d find that people of X income are going to require 10X+ for a money marriage.
Arranged marriages are the most obvious example. Two families get together and decide <X> and <Y> will marry to advance familial interests; wishes and desires of <X> and <Y> be damned.
Divorces becoming normalized and destigmatized (to some degree) is also a modern phenomenon. Lest we forget, the Church of England came into existence for the sole reason that the English king at the time wanted to divorce his queen.
There's no reason to feel sad that marriage isn't about "love", because that notion is at best a recent turn of events, and at worst an elaborate lie woven by storytellers of various forms through the ages. Fact of the matter is that marriage for the vast portion of human history has never been about "love". Marriage has always been about money and power, and ultimately leaving offspring in a manner whose lineage can be easily traced back.
The law around regarding consent in marriage started in the 11th century. Unless we want to remove consent and arrange marriages, the "love" influence of Christianity on marriage isn't going anywhere.
The reason that CoE's genesis is largely traced to the mid-16th century is because Henry VIII had trouble producing an heir with an eligible wife, and he was more than willing to break with the Holy See on such a momentous issue. He declared himself Head of the Church. He declared himself arbiter of the marriage laws.
Henry arrogated so much authority that Rome was unable to continue in union with that Church of England, no matter how old and venerable its roots may have been.
It's worth nothing the English Reformation happened in the same decade as Martin Luther's sola fide, the 1520s. Divine providence?
The pope didn't own it in 600AD, the pope didn't own it in 2000AD. The 1520s is not the cause of the CoE's existence, the start in 600AD is the start of the CoE (and before that, Christ).
The Roman Catholic, papal perspective is different.
The Christian understanding of marriage has always, always been one of mutual consent. The Catholic Church, for one, does not consider marriages valid unless both husband and wife have exchanged their free consent to the marriage as it is understood. That is, they know the implications of the vows, they know marriage is a lifelong covenant between one man and one woman, and they are both willing to lovingly accept children into their family by whatever means.
Therefore, Christian families arranging marriage rely on the consent of bride and groom. It may be somewhat grudging and it may not come from a place of romantic love, but free and willing consent must be granted, or that marriage is 100% invalid.
I'm not denying that people in history have desired marriage to someone out of love or attraction. But I am saying that the economical aspect has always played a big role, if not the decisive one.
Being married myself, I know that what makes marriage work is not what you felt when you started. More important than marrying the person you love, I would say, is loving the person you married.
> A family court judge: “Child support is the government’s way of seeing how many women will work as whores if you give them a paycheck and a job title of 'single mom'.”
might be more informative.
[Particularly the notion that we've set up varrious economic incentives that might be against our personal and collective well being is one worth exploring objectively, --- but the frequent moralizing really gets in the way.]
Eeech, the ill-advised quotes get worse:
> Women have the right to fuck whoever they want, what is the point of owning pussy? 5. As a result, non-white populations will eventually out-breed and conquer the silly white people
This is part of a long quote but the book's authors still saw fit to include it.
> The article provides additional examples of adult women who had sex with teenage boys and were able to collect, despite the fact that conception occurred during an illegal statutory rape.
> A jury in Wisconsin found that a woman had given a man a date rape drug and that "Daniel's sexual intercourse with Jennifer was involuntary," but the woman was still entitled to the same level of child support revenue as any other plaintiff in Wisconsin.
> The article describes that "An appellate court in Illinois reached a similar result in Phillips v. Irons. In that case, Dr. Richard Phillips and Dr. Sharon Irons began a dating relationship, during which time the couple engaged in oral sex on three occasions. … unbeknownst to him, Irons used Phillips’s semen (obtained from oral sex) to successfully inseminate herself." The mother, a married physician, was able to collect child support.
I recall that in England gay sex among men was illegal and carried a prison sentence during the Victorian age. But lesbian sex? No prohibition. Why? Because Queen Victora, when pressed on the matter, could not conceive of how that could work? How could two women have sex? Ridiculous. Nobody questioned her further.
Divorce is an extremely common legal activity, yet there's almost zero commonality in the US about how it goes about, or even what it means. We're not talking about the margins. There are colossal differences about everything having to do with it. And this is within different counties in the same US state.
It's actually good for divorces to be cheap and friction-free today. If it were as simple as unfollowing on instagram, imagine the number of people who would be saved the grief of paying child-support, alimony, criminal cases for 10s of years.
The court systems can still enforce waiting periods and explicit “friction” mechanisms without the insanity that is today’s court systems.
1) Kids cost money to raise. Nowhere is that reflected in the author's analysis. Curious...
2) It's difficult to put a price on being free from a shitty relationship. I wasn't very happy about child support, but I'd probably have paid 3x to have You Know Who out of my life.
3a) Just because some people pull this shit with premeditated malice, doesn't mean it's particularly common. 3b) No matter how many giant red flags, you're never going to convince someone that the person they're about to marry is capable of fucking them over. It's as big a waste of time as comments on HN ;)
it's covered a lot of other places in the book, both USDA sources and several other papers.