Framework Ethernet Expansion Card is now available
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frame.work
The main point of the self contained expansions is that you are unlikely to loose them and they can safely travel around with the device. With a card that protrudes like that, if you want to put the laptop in a bag, you have to take the card out, or risk damaging the card and/or laptop as the protrusion gets levered around. The expansion cards plug into USB-C connectors that are soldered directly onto the motherboard, so the risk of damaging the motherboard though the expansion card does exist (although it's probably not that likely, and any damage would probably be localized to just the motherboard's USB connector).
With a external Ethernet port, you can have the USB expansion card in between the motherboard and the USB Ethernet device, to prevent wear on the motherboard's connector when repeatedly connecting and disconnecting the device.
So what's the gain by using the expansion card format, when it can't permanently live in the laptop? You might as well just use a cable. I guess maybe if you only carry the laptop by hand and have to constantly use Ethernet, like if you're debugging a network installation, it would be good? But a regular USB Ethernet port seems like it would be more practical for most cases.
I do recall someone on the Framework subreddit saying that they carry a laptop around with them on a shop/factory floor, but mostly use wired ethernet when they stop and put it down on a workbench. Using a dongle wouldn't be great because it'd be something that would swing around unpredictably as he'd walk around a crowded room with lots of people and machines running. So in this case, this expansion card would probably be a useful step up from a dongle.
Regardless, a retractable "XJACK"[0] from the PCMCIA days might have been a better choice for this, if the hardware could be made "short" enough in that dimension. Downside there is of course fragility; I imagine they're easy to snap off.
Ah thanks for finding the name, I tried to describe it in an older comment [1], on the same topic of Framework laptop expansions.
Agree with you, I hope such a version exists one day!
3Com also had a proprietary connector on the PCMCIA card edge, and an adapter cable of a few/several inches that went from that to a bulky RJ45 socket housing with an LED on it. It meant carrying the adapter with your laptop, but the experience during use felt a little better. The PCMCIA-side of the adapter stuck out a bit and wasn't a very solid attachment, but that might've been partly by design. If the cable gets jerked, the connector might pull out before dashing the much more expensive laptop to the floor.
Overall, I liked the Xircom RealPort PCMCIA/CardBus cards of the same era, which took up the space of 2 PCMCIA slots, and basically added 1 or more flush connectors to the side of your laptop. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=xircom%20realport
(I mentioned all 3 of these kinds of cards, in a vagabonding laptop writeup at the time: https://www.neilvandyke.org/linux-thinkpad-560e/ )
There are definitely small jacks [1] that seem to work fine. There's also plenty of 2.5G usb dongles that have a pretty small form factor. So it doesn't seem like there's a technical reason it has to be that big.
Perhaps the folding connectors don't have the long-term durability? (Though, a huge benefit of the Framework is a broken port doesn't mean your entire machine is broken).
Maybe component availability? Maybe it was they only way to build it at a reasonable cost for the sales they expect?
[1] https://thetechnologyman.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/HP-P...
dont get me wrong i'm sure there are better designs than others, but when its bad, its really bad
I used to work in an R&D lab at AT&T (the mothership, pre at&t = cellular/mobile). My laptops took many falls due to someone/something giving the Ethernet cord a tug so I was in the habit of not just cutting the boots but removing the tab that's designed to keep the cable in the socket. I still do that on whatever eth cable goes into my backpack.
It's also good around hyper and small dogs/children :)
Just looking at it, as long as its manufactured to reasonable tolerances, you'd have to do quite a bit to damage the laptop via the protrusion. I'm not sure how big of a deal this is. I'd just throw it in a bag and not worry about it, protrusion and all.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1520/4366/products/type-c-...
https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-n2pgpewhfn/images/stencil/12...
Trying to fit ethernet into a slimmer form factor has been around for a loooooooong time....
Those fucking suck, and some of us use our laptops on our laps, with ethernet connected. Those expanding jacks basically only work while it is on a desk because if the cable bends downwards even a tiny bit it just comes out.
They could've made the expansion slot bigger. It's unlikely that Ethernet wasn't talked about at some point when they designed the laptop. They chose not to, which may very well be the right choice, but then we're talking about trade-ofs not about possibilities.
The repairability and linux support of the device is very cool. The easy upgrade internals and well labeled bits are very cool, but the external modules seem kind of pointless to me. They take up valuable interior space and are basically snap in USB-C dongles anyway.
If you have a few of these square framework only modules in your bag is that better than having more universal mac style dongles?
This ethernet module is a little bulky, but it still looks like it fits more snugly than any third party dongle would, and chances are you wouldn't want to take it with you when you leave the house anyway.
The bottom of the expansion cards is exposed though - it seems like it should be possible to do the fold open style of connector that a lot of laptops have built in without it needing to expand past the edge. But maybe including the circuitboard as well took up too much space.
I like having a microSD reader built in for instance, even if most people don't need one. With most laptops now I'd need to carry a card reader around and it wouldn't be flush with the laptop.
I prefer the "oldschool" way... give us a bunch of usb ports, ethernet, sd card reader, one or two video out options, etc. then add a few (back in the time pcmcia/expresscard) expansion ports for other things.
The current options seem like configuring a car, and having a steering wheel as an optional addon module.
again, as I said, I might be getting old :)
Turns out... it just really doesn't matter much, and there are a bunch of upsides.
Namely - I can charge on either side, with basically any decent usb-c charger, and I can plug it into basically any usb-c dock. Those are pretty huge points of convenience. They actively make my life a lot better (seriously - a single charger for all my devices while traveling is SO fucking nice - two laptops, headphones, phone, remarkable... one charger).
The only caveat? I have to throw a single usb-c dongle into my laptop bag for the occasional time I need it. My pick of choice is the pinephone dongle (https://pine64.com/product/pinephone-usb-c-docking-bar-dark-...) since it's cheap, has ethernet and HDMI, plus two usb ports, and works with basically every usb-c device I've plugged it into, on any OS.
Big plus? That dongle is way, way smaller than the extra chargers I'd be lugging around otherwise.
“I never have to undergo those complicated hardware upgrades, because a Mac always comes with everything already.”
- - —
> card that sticks out like that
remember PCMCIA cards? back in those good old days of laptops taking a universal expansion card physical format, the Ethernet cards often had a spring loaded pop-out jack to hold the Ethernet cable.
look at the picture for this on wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Card
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Card#/media/File:XJACK_netw...
Framework is simply “doing it wrong”.
// disclaimer: I own the latest Frame.work model, my bias to want their success is strong enough that I bought one
Later, this was replaced by ExpressCard, but that never took off as much as PCMCIA cards. Back in the day, laptops came with one or two PCMCIA slots, which could be used to add full size IEEE1394, USB, Ethernet, or even Wi-Fi ports. I remember having to use an ORiNOCO Gold Wi-Fi card to get online back in the day. I had a desktop that had a slot in the front that it plugged into
[1] https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=pcmcia&iax=images&ia=images
What's the difference?
Is there a reason it is not a good replacement for it even when you want the card/module form-factor rather than external devices?
Congrats, now I've really something to ponder.
You’re right, it said Orinoco in the label. Lucent Technologies was printed there too.
I want to see SFP ports. Specifically SFP28 so I can stick in my 25gbit fiber modules etc.
There is no way to get SFP28 on a laptop to my knowledge as USB-C (yet, USB 4 could do it) is not fast enough. It has to interface directly with PCIe.
So what do you expect to happen? Framework expansion cards are built-in USB-C adapters; if USB-C can't do it, they can't do it.
the main issue with plugging into the laptop is dimensions, because there is only so much clearence
5GbE or 10GbE on standard business equipment would be fine, but SFP equipment is more cost effective per gigabit than 10GbE at the moment.
A 28 port SFP switch is only around $1000 but a switch with 10Gbps on every port will set you back thousands and will only have a few ports. Not enough to do a whole office.
Slab on the back would have enough space, it wouldn't look so weird and cheap, and you could put all sorts of fun stuff back there like an actual docking module.
Or extra batteries.
I would be amazed if this thing sells much at all, because having that big square thing come out of the side of the laptop just looks like it's asking to break. It looks wrong, it feels wrong, and it's just not going to work.
Eh, the RJ-45 jack is thicker than the laptop, I think this is good enough of a solution for now. And I’m someone that would spring for the ethernet adapter. I’d consider getting a framework, but I’d start by buying the low end of everything, and just see how many years I could keep running it, ship of Theseus style. That said, it wouldn’t be my main dev machine…
I doubt we'll see it again, even Thinkpad ditched it iirc. But it feels like it'd be perfect for Framework, as the ports on the dock itself could be modular like the laptop. I'd largely solve the problem of this ethernet port not looking flush, as it'd set out of view.
Probably just wishful thinking
The bottom of the Framework expansion cards is exposed, so it would be possible to design an expansion card which exposed a dock connection on the bottom. It wouldn't be as good as the dock connection on these old Thinkpad and Dell laptops, which was centered, since the Framework expansion cards are on the sides and not on the center; but it could be made by a third party, without having to wait for the laptop manufacturer.
I know it creates a ton of compatability problems but its just so unnecesserily huge when you consider its only 8 pins. You could half the height and retain the lock-in clip functionality quite easily.
AFAIK, there's one, IEC 61076-3-124, but it doesn't seem to be very common.
You'd have to replace the global networking infrastructure. Starting from every wall plug to the switches and backbone devices. The new connector would have to be easily crimpable, and hopefully as cheap as RJ45, I don't think you could go much slimmer.
All of this just so your end device can be a little bit slimmer. Definitely not worth it.
Using both at the same time so you could leave the backbone alone might work, but this already exists in the form of a usb type-c network adapter.
We've transitioned other technologies.
Is the industry so focused on WiFi that they are just hoping it will go away for end user devices?
Surely even if the data-centre a compact alternative would be a cost saving due to taking up less space?
What am I missing here?
I can not begin to imagine how many facilities on this earth require a man, a laptop, and an ethernet cable. Jesus it must be _a lot_.
Ethernet isn't going anywhere. Serial ports haven't gone anywhere. I literally was in a factory 2 hours ago where they are manufacturing new, >$100,000 machines that have both serial and ethernet ports, both of which will remain standards for god knows how many decades.
We use USB dongles for the serial stuff now, but even that is not possible for some applications iirc.
I know the setup you’re alluding to, but hey… surely the job could also be done by a woman?
Do you see how fast this type of cultural revolution bullshit goes downhill? Someone else can always be more sanctimonious.
I of course used "man" in place of "person" as has been common (and correct) for thousands of years. Man can mean "mankind" or "a person", and does not exclusively mean "male", and never has. Sort of like how "guys" now means "people".
In fact, "man" meant person before it meant "male", it literally predates the English language. It's so old it predates writing. It's one of the oldest words we have.
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=man
Next time, don't assume the worst in people, and don't be so sanctimonious. Not every turn of phrase is an act of malice.
Whether man has been correct and standard usage in the past is fairly irrelevant. People's attitudes towards gender have changed (for the better), and so our view of what is 'good' and 'bad' in written English have changed too. Particularly in a male dominated industry where women don't feel welcome, using phrasing that implies a job is only done by men is fairly unfriendly to half the population. It's not hard to use "person" or "they" or other gender neutral language and eliminate this particular problem.
Language is a tool to express our thoughts. As our thoughts change, so does language. If you don't give a shit about women in technology (or anywhere else) then fine, but don't be surprised if people who do then call you on it.
We've been here before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Olds
The reason I was in that factory today is because the woman who runs the tech company I work for sent me there, lol.
But go ahead, explain to me what a chauvinist oppressor I am.
I don't think it is language that keeps women out of tech, and I don't think this flash in the pan cultural moment is going to change our habits on a word that is older than writing.
Using "man" as general term to refer to a person of any sex is wrong, but assuming a colonialist Western cultural norm regarding child labor is ok?
What makes you think that? It's 2022 and half the world's commercial airplanes require floppy disks for navigation.
> What am I missing here?
40 years of accumulated infrastructure. Datacenters may have upgraded, other businesses have not. People generally don't re-wire buildings when the old wires still work.
> We've transitioned other technologies.
I wouldnt say we have transitioned to other tech. And we still have it because inertia. Same reason why serial is still widely used. Also, ethernet != RJ45. You can have hardwired point to point connections with ethernet as well, and those can be quite compact.
> Is the industry so focused on WiFi that they are just hoping it will go away for end user devices?
> Surely even if the data-centre a compact alternative would be a cost saving due to taking up less space?
> What am I missing here?
Ethernet is simply more reliable and scalable. Reliable in that there is basically no risk of it disconnecting, and scalable in that you can have hundreds of ethernet cables besides each other without much interference. With WIFI it'd become unusable.
WRT other technologies, we've updated USB and Thunderbolt to use the compact USB-C connector standard. We've updated display connectors many times over the years!
And yes, there are legacy installations and so on, but that's never a good reason to not advance a technology!
We'd all still on SCSI connectors or SATA if legacy was a good reason not to evolve technology!
Just looking at a rack of patch panels and switches, you can see a lot of space is taken up with supporting the RJ45 connector itself!
None of the other comments really explain why we still use RJ45. Because it's a standard and legacy isnt a reason to not have developed a modern compact alternative!
I guess because it is good enough? SCSI couldn't scale to higher throughputs afaict, while the RJ45 mostly doesn't impact speeds at all.
If you put the port on a little cable, you're back to the USB-C dongle thing.
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/12/8/16750574/p...
Also, most laptops with collapsable ethernet ports do indeed fold down. I've seen dozens of them, but I've never seen a port like the one you posted (probably because it's a terrible idea, but maybe for other reasons).
I will never accept bad design. This is bad design.
Anecdotally, ThinkPads have a substantial following, and there's also been concerns about more recent Lenovo quality and design choices, and there's arguably a question-mark wrt some security threat models.
I'm curious what the business numbers would look like, for what Framework could do, and how many ThinkPad devotees they could convert.
If nothing else, I'd like to see a crowdfunding campaign for it so I can put my money where my mouth is ;-).
We finally have one good connector that almost everyone seems to trust, that is both cheap and reliable. I bet there's a lot of places it can be used.
I'd like to see a home automation hub that had expansion ports like this for adding multiple radios.
Or a Raspberry Pi class device that just had these connections so you could choose exactly what ports you need.
But I kind of have some doubts about this particular use case. I think it will be pretty specialist.
USB to ethernet adapters are cheap. In the future, I could see moving towards direct USB connections. Routers might someday have a usb network port built in. You could have wall outlets that expose the network as a USB to ethernet dongle.
Long term that would seem to be a bit nicer, just not have any bulky Ethernet anywhere near mobile stuff , hide it behind permanently mounted converters.
I'm a bit surprised that there is no blog post about the release of the ethernet card yet.
Coming soon to almost all decent laptops.
So why 2.5GigE on a laptop? So when you're at your desk, where your laptop spends 90%+ of its life, your bulk storage can have access speeds that are at least from this century, if only just.