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Comment by kippster | Hacker News Reader

Poor people drive pickup trucks too

There's a tweet I read that says something along the lines, "as long as any change, despite how beneficial for most poor people will hurt some poor people, it is the progressive position such change is bad. From that the progressive position is keep everything the same."

The irony is of course that poor people disproportionately suffer from car fatalities, so "change" is already being wrought on them by the increasing size of cars and increasingly more expensive and difficult car culture. They just lack the voice (or awareness really) that middle class people who want to protect their position and privilege do, and the latter do not hesitate to use the poor as props whom they otherwise have contempt for the moment they need relief in other areas.

This is overly dismissive of a legitimate concern. Laborers, tradesmen, and people who can only afford a single vehicle that must meet all their needs predominately try to get trucks and SUVs.

Just because you can bike to work does not mean everyone else has the same luxury.

You can have vans with a front like regular cars, too. Where I live exactly zero carpenters have pickup trucks or SUVs.

There is never a need for SUVs in suburban settings.

Pickup trucks atleast has some theoretical utility.

They'd drive them a lot less with European levels of gasoline tax.

Lots of poor people actually need those vehicles. They would just suffer from having to pay the taxes.

Do they really need a pickup truck? There are so many alternatives to carry around loads which are much lighter. What do you think construction workers and farmers use in Europe?

My farmer neighbour had one beatdown VW polo that he used for the field or the woods. Full motor swap for 500 €, a good car.

Mostly vans I believe. With roofrack or trailer if something longer is transported. Or just get it delivered by actual truck.

In Japan they mostly use Kei trucks, which weigh around 700 kg (1600 lbs).

I can count on one hand the time I have seen someone driving a pickup truck with something actually in the back of the truck -- and it doesn't even make sense to put anything in the back of the truck unless you bring a stepladder with you as well in case you need to retrieve it.

I work construction. at least half of the people on the same jobs as me drive their personal trucks 80km to work, park them until the end of the day, and drive home. Not a single tool in them.

The other half drive sedans.

Yeah my girlfriend works construction and drives a Honda Civic. It fits all her tools just fine. On the job she drives a company truck. Still 75% of her coworkers drive their own personal trucks to work. It is more of a cultural thing.

In my neck of the woods the foreman/boss often drive a nice pickup, but he never has anything on the flatbed. The guys actually building drive a Hiace or Sprinter or something like that (company vehicle).

You probably see a ton of trade vehicles with tools in them, you just don't associate them as personal vehicles. Or your project is only subbing out to commercial trade companies.

No, it's because I work in civil construction. "Tools" are brought to site on flatbed trailers or in panel vans. Foremen drive company branded pickups, they move smaller tools around site. Most crew drive their personal vehicles to site as described above, and the only gear they have is a safety vest, boots, and their lunch.

Not to mention that the IRS requires a vehicle to be at least 6000 pounds in order to deprecate for business purposes. Buying anything under 6000 pounds for business means paying more taxes.

Note that a 6000lb minimum rules out the f150, the best selling vehicle in North America. Tax considerations can't be too top of mind.

Not according to a google search for "6000 pounds vehicle list".

Doesn’t look like any of the 2021 F-150s are over 6000 pounds curb weight (1). It’s not particularly close, so I would expect most of the newer model would be under 6000 pounds too (I didn’t easily find the newer brochure)

(1) https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America...

Curb weight is an irrelevant number, interesting only to calculate payload (which many ignore, albeit at their peril). The number of interest for regulators is Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), as that's the manufacturer's specification of the heaviest the vehicle can be in as-sold configuration and still drive down the road safely.

Thanks for the clarification. The lowest GVWR among the f150s is about 6010 lbs which makes the IRS' apparently minimum weight make more sense.

> Curb weight is an irrelevant number, interesting only to calculate payload (which many ignore, albeit at their peril).

Not just their peril, also any road users or others nearby. If you've ever seen an overloaded pickup, they tend to drift around their lane as all the extra weight in the back reduces the steering authority on the front. Double so if it's pulling a badly loaded trailer that puts a lot of weight on the hitch

Lots of poor people work construction in Europe too, and they do fine without gigantic pickup trucks.

Sadly, pickups are becoming more and more common from what I've seen over the last couple years in London.

+1. Hardly ever have seen a pickup in germany. Most trade companies will use vans.

And would be eventually priced out by something like this.

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