Construction unions etc are hyper corrupt and reward tenure over effort. I can’t imagine what a union would do with Google money.
Traditional unions and tech unions are pretty different indeed. But unions stand to be one possible tool to help remediate some of the problems unique to tech. For non-managers, this change can often be difficult to influence otherwise. Nothing says they have to mirror construction unions, anymore than management in tech has to mirror construction management
In addition to having a stronger voice around working conditions (which are pretty awful in some tech fields like game development), they also stand to help workers have a stronger guiding voice on decision making. There is valid critique against tech that too rarely does anyone ask if something should be done; not just if it can be done.
Speak for yourself. My partner is a horticulturist, a job which involves rather a lot of manual labour, and was one of the union reps for the Botanic Gardens at which he worked for a while.
And I still think unions are a very good idea.
Maybe this is a non-American view, and his counterpart unionized horticulturists in the US are all taking bribes on the side. But I can't see it. It feels like the problem is that construction unions - which, yep, got pretty notorious for corruption - are the only unions people know about, not the ones quietly working to fight for their members' rights.
Unions are a way for workers to have more bargaining power in their workplace. When one employee sits at a table with their boss, exactly one person is in charge, and exactly one person is at risk of being fired. When multiple workers stand together, they can withhold their valuable labor from their employer. The tables are much more even, and more fruitful bargaining process can take place.
That's just two parties haggling, classic market stuff.
Also I've never actually been a member of the union but that does seem to have mattered in my career as by law every employee has to be treated the same if you are a union member or not here (Finland).
> Construction unions etc are hyper corrupt and reward tenure over effort.
There is no reason why the tech union has to be like that. The union is made out of its members so they pretty much decide its course.
Similarly, I have numerous members of my extended family who worked or still work in government Union roles. Most hate their union, due to the aforementioned petty politics, some have moved to private industry and become much happier, and notably the only one happy with their union is deeply involved in it.
When people say tech should unionize I wonder what is so appealing about being compensated less, having opportunities for internal progression gated by seniority, and giving your job an extra thick layer of social harassment and stress.
But then, I live in Canada, and we have some fairly decent basic employment rights and social supports.
At least inflation seems to be giving some impetus to take action, with BCGEU taking job action. Three years after COVID hit and only because every member, regardless of seniority and cushy position, is hit by the effects of inflation.
"Sorry, I can't merge this pull request, these config files are managed by the DevOps union and only they can review this code."
"I know the system is down and our customers are failing, but we don't work weekends."
"I can't give you a raise because you are maxed out for your 4 years of time put in here. Everyone with 4 years time gets paid exactly the same rate."
"Sorry you are getting laid off - these other (less skilled) people have more time here than you. We lay off based on seniority."
"I know we hired you to work in R&D, but are now being assigned to ads."
"We need to meet a completely arbitrary deadline so that I can increase my yearly bonus, so you are working this weekend. Isn't it great that programmers are exempt from overtime pay?"
"I can't give you a raise because our promotion matrix, developed without any worker input, says you do not meet the requirements. It is a completely objective system based on scores your managers have given you. No, you can not know how those scores are arrived at."
"Sorry you are getting laid off. Because a black box machine-learning algorithm chose you."
I also shudder to think of the painful position it would put the R&D team in if they had to bargain with a union every time they got a new transfer that doesn't work out: someone escalates to a manager and it gets communicated to the transfer as "hey buddy, we think it might be better if you spend some time working on ads" for the sake of saving everyone's feelings. Next thing you know, what should have been a polite reshuffling is a negotiation with a union rep...
For a specific example, people often notice that higher pay is going to more recent hires in spite of being less skilled. It is very clear that the current system is not "the most skilled get the most pay" but when unions are mentioned people immediately retreat to this assumption.
Different people in this community have different opinions. I think tech interviews are fine the way they are and I believe that my management chain is doing the right things for the company -- I think our promo process generally works OK, I'm not micromanaged, my oncall expectations are reasonable, there is no forced attrition, etc. If I didn't have faith in my management chain, I would leave (as I have done before).
> "I am a rockstar god."
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the value you bring to your company should stand on its own two feet. I don't think my employer should give in to employee demands unless it is a net benefit for the business, because the company's success is my success (via stock appreciation). If my employer consistently makes the wrong call in either direction, then they'll fail, and that's OK -- if I think they're headed in the wrong direction, I can leave.
"Good business decision" is defined by whether or not it helps the company succeed in the long term. I want my employer to make good business decisions, always, even when it means making tradeoffs regarding employees.
"Sorry, we need long 24h oncall shifts to keep the service up. No, we won't pay you extra."
"Sorry, we are shutting down your team. No severance, by the way."
"No, we won't share the minutes for the meeting the managers had to discuss your promotion where we rejected you. Try again next time."
"I know that Bob is paid $50,000 more than you despite being at the same level and with less experience. No, we won't give you a raise."