A hacker bought a voting machine on eBay. Michigan officials are investigating | Hacker News Reader

A hacker bought a voting machine on eBay. Michigan officials are investigating

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46 pointsrntn14 comments

In my part of Michigan ballots are still done on scantron sheets. Its the best of both worlds--paper trail with high speed input. And the equipment is cheap(ish) and bulletproof--its been battle tested in generations of schools with non-technical people using it.

Also, talk about a return on investment for the guy that bought it for $7.99 on Goodwill and sold it on eBay for over 1k

paper ballots is still the absolute best way to vote. It's the most difficult to tamper, and most importantly, simple enough that people can see and understand that it _isn't_ tampered.

Exactly. You can build machines to tally them up and sort etc. but in the end if all else fails you can physically do or verify the election.

Paper ballots have plenty of flaws. They can be lost/thrown away, accidentally or on purpose, and it’s much easier to know if 1 of a few dozen machines is missing than 1 of hundreds of boxes of ballots. They can be ambiguous (hanging Chads) or someone can physically fill them out incorrectly or invaidly. Humans suck at counting, if it comes down to that.

I think it’s much easier for a nefarious person or party to make a specific claim (“they threw away my ballot”) and much harder to refute it, against a paper ballot than a machine; “the machine was hacked, but I can’t be more specific”

It's just as easy for a machine to throw away and not count your vote. Most machines actually print out encoded paper ballots that have all the same vulnerabilities but are usually harder to verify on the voter's side that they recorded your votes correctly.

It is hard to verify that they voted for X without being able to prove to a 3rd party that you voted for X. This goal is to prevent selling votes, or complying with blackmail like: "we will fire you (or harm you/your pet/family) if you don't vote for X".

And the person voting wants to make sure that when they voted for X, that the machine counted that they voted for X.

I think the compromise between these 2 would be that the receipt is very clear who you voted for, but you have to place that receipt into the ballot box in order to cast your vote. This way there is no possible way to prove to your blackmailer that you voted for X. Also, the machine could be able to deal with disabilities (blind? macular degeneration? need lots of time to actually vote?).

I'm sure I'm missing something here. I think that one would want it easy to verify but impossible to "sell" to a 3rd party. If it is encoded into a barcode, or hash string, the average citizen won't be able to verify any of it.

I think the concept you're looking for is "voter-verified paper audit trail", which is supposed to take place while in the voting booth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter-verified_paper_audit_tra...

Vote selling/blackmail is possible by taking a picture of your ballot while in the voting booth. One way to reduce that threat is to allow people to create as many ballots as they want while in the booth.

And to restrict people from using their cameras while voting, so there's no way to connect it with the ballot actually deposited. (Yes, they can start recording while in the booth, but what happens before/after the recording period.)

All ballots (and everything else) must be tracked, secured, and accounted for thru the entire process. This verifies the entire physical chain of custody. All materials and records are audited by the canvassing board before an election is certified.

Your election administrators probably have their procedures available online. And everyone is allowed to observe any part of the process. I strongly encourage you to observe and participate. Attending the canvas board meetings are quite illuminating.

Source: long time poll judge and election integrity activist.

Electronic voting is /automatically, inherently/ less secure than paper ballots and human oversight.

Using electronics for voting is BEGGING TO BE HACKED!

Stop begging!

If you exclusively rely on technology then yeah, it's a recipe for disaster. We can't simply ignore technology because of its flaws, it can also bring some positive improvements to the democratic process if combined with multiple layers of verifications. Each of these layers should be interdependent to ensure the integrity of the process.

I found this a while ago https://github.com/microsoft/electionguard, this seems like a good step forward to improve transparency in the process and would allow everyone to confidentially verify that their vote was effectively counted.

Someone is lying...

>the eBay seller, Ean Hutchison, who lives in Ohio, found the Dominion-made machine on a Michigan Goodwill website for just $7.99. He snapped it up then immediately put it up for sale on eBay.

>In the post on eBay, Hutchison stated that the device had been used in "the most recent Michigan elections."

>[Michigan Sec of State] noted that the voting machine was originally from Wexford County and clarified that it was not used to tabulate ballots.

No discrepancy there.

There is a separate machine that is tasked with aggregation and tabulation.

This one is the user-interfacing machine.

>Michigan officials are investigating

Shouldn't Michigan officials get investigated by someone else? like FBI?

Awesome!............... -_-

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