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Comment by JaneLovesDotNet | Hacker News Reader

Anyone surprised by the Island notch software/hardware design? I don't mean the idea of a pill shaped notch. But the fact they're pouring so much software resource into it (even building dev tools) when the shape/size of that cutout should in theory change in the future when technology allows for smaller (or non-existent) cutouts.

They will either feel commited to that hardware design and stick to it longer than they should, or they will have to abandon a lot of software.

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I haven't read the new developer documentation, but if it's like the notch of previous years, Apple will recommend that 3rd-party developers don't pay it any heed specifically, and instead rely on the safe area dimensions/constraints provided by the OS in order to control their layouts.

For 3rd party developers to show information in the Island, that will be achieved through the Live Activities API, which is not specific to the iPhone 14 Pro.

The Island will likely stick around for a few years, after which point Apple will adapt that notification area UI to work without the Island.

They specifically called out having APIs for having "dualing" (two) different streams of notifications so it seems like they are playing at having this sort of UI permanently (or at least near future).

It makes sense to keep an incarnation of this in the future because they explicitly are replacing a few types of built-in UI with the Island.

Yeah, I didn't see anything about the Island that seemed to be API-specific to it. Music players will probably get into the Island by just adapting the normal Now Playing APIs that get your media information on the lockscreen, live updates get to the island by adapting the Live Activities API, and so on. Maybe there's some customization that you can do, but I imagine developers don't need to specifically code for it.

And since it's basically baked-in that iPhones will have a front-facing camera, and they don't seem eager to abandon Face ID, I don't see the Island disappearing anytime soon. And even if they get some fancy new tech that allows to hide everything behind the screen without massive compromises, it's still possible for the holepunch design to live on in the non-Pro models and later in the SE models (similar to how Touch ID still exists on the SE).

Funnily I thought the exact opposite when I saw it. To me it seemed like making the space a dynamically laid out notification blob area was a great way to handle upcoming cutout shape changes. E.g. maybe the iPhone 16 moves the camera behind the screen and then that hole punch becomes just another slot to arrange notification elements. This leaves largely the same UI model to code against (to Apple and developers) among multiple phones which need to be supported for 5+ years but have different hardware layouts.

They likely have the next 3-4 phones mostly planned out. Given the current limitations of under-display cameras, they’d rather pour resources into function over form when it comes to features and services like FaceID, FaceTime, and Memoji.

Sure, maybe by the end of the 20s, the “island” will be obsolete, but I think Apple is secure in the knowledge that the pill is here for several generations of iPhone to come.

Do you think they plan out that far in advance? If so that is very impressive.

Indeed, Apple keeps designs around for quite a while, while other brands iterate more quickly it seems. The notch and fingerprint scanner when underscreen cameras and scanners are available, the MacBook 2016 design, the Apple mouse, are all examples that come to mind.

Fair enough on the mouse, but in-display fingerprint sensors are notoriously bad and noticeable on the display with screen protectors. Android devices haven’t managed secure Face ID without IR. And the under screen cameras have poor image quality.

Post-Ive, Apple is prioritizing reliability and usability over the gimmicks, and I think that’s for the best.

https://www.androidauthority.com/under-display-selfie-camera...

https://www.androidauthority.com/in-display-fingerprint-sens...

> Fair enough on the mouse, but in-display fingerprint sensors are notoriously bad and noticeable on the display with screen protectors.

What do you mean? My OnePlus 9 Pro has an in-display fingerprint scanner and it works wonderfully, with or without a screen protector (they warn you to redo the scans if you add/remove one).

I viewed this as a signal that the island is not going away anytime soon. It's like they told the team: "how can we make it seem like the notch/island is a good thing, like we did it on purpose?"

I don't mind how it looks/operates, and it's definitely nicer seeming than the notch it replaces.

Right. It's very commital, which I find a bit surprising.

I like it.. or looks like Siri will become this pill

Not surprising to me at all. Cameras fully behind a screen without a hole punch seems pretty unlikely, and this allows Apple to add cutouts for other sensors in the future and hide them nicely.

Perhaps there are ideas for AR-related aspects of this eventually?

I’m always confused by how many people believe that it would be trivial to put screen hardware in front of a camera without negatively affecting image quality. I’ll take an even marginally better front facing camera over getting rid of the notch any day.

Apple’s shown themselves willing to abandon software as hardware needs dictate (3D touch, grr).

They’ve committed to obviously bad choices before like the touchbar.

I loved the touchbar. The new MBP I received from my new company doesn't have one and I actually miss it :(

When you actually use it to customize your workflows it was really cool. For example I added a global screenshot button in mine. In iTerm I added buttons to split vertically and horizontally, and buttons to SSH on my most common machines. On VSCode I liked to be able to run in debug with a keyboard button.

I'd love a compromise with both the fn row, and customizable buttons, either physical buttons or a mini touchbar (or a full fledged touchbar above the fn row)

I saw it and immediately thought of the touchbar on the Macbook Pro. A little bit like what we can we do to make the "Pro" model stand out with something else.

Well, in their defence the touchbar is still around and actively being supported on all native apps.

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