Don't ignore the janitor

Even the few janitors that speak English are both rushed to complete their tasks in the insufficient allotted time and almost terrified to talk to the normal employees, presumably due to the perceived power balance - were an employee to complain about them, the vendor would almost certainly fire them rather than risk offending the client. It's not fair, but it is reality, and it means that even when I do say hello or hold a door or whatever I don't get a response.

Not everyone wants the silence to be punctuated with smalltalk.

We can get wound up in ourselves and forget to hold a door, or avoid spilling crumbs on our carpet, or log out of our workstation, or use a different hallway when the floor is being waxed, or to move the trash can. It's not really a reflection on our self-importance. It's just a character flaw.

You shouldn't be rude and I have no problem with and do nod/smile at cleaning/security/service staff but I am not good at smalltalk or whatever so I treat everyone the same and ignore people unless I know them and have something to talk about.

I really dislike insincere or forced displays of kindness although one should force themselves to be polite when appropriate if it doesn't come naturally.

Having been to the US I'd say I don't think that is a fact everywhere also. In NYC for sure, as people are more transactional with each other, or SV where people are awfully superficial/shallow. But I've been to cities where people are much warmer (from the top of my head, San Diego).

One step further I'd recommend you to do is to sometimes move past from the "automatic pleasantries". For example, when the cashier at the fast food asks you "hello, how are you sir", instead of answering "fine, thanks, I want...." go for "I'm good Jennifer, and you? How are you doing today?". My experience is that this always get people off guard and has a very positive impact of them, as bring them back to a more human (and less transactional) aspect of the interaction.

Up next in a techbro blog post: "I have discovered that money doesn't buy happiness, and that being an asshole isn't a good thing."

I was effectively the janitor for a public ice arena outside Detroit from the age of 14 to 16. I cleaned public restrooms, as well as hockey locker rooms. I emptied large trash bins (thankfully before recycling was mainstream). I cleaned below the bleachers. That was probably the worst. But, if I may say, that experience helped mold me, for the better. People were rude to me, but it wasn’t quite as consistently bad as I might have thought. Perhaps it was my age that softened the treatment and showed slightly more humanity. In any case, I wear the experience as a proud badge of honor (as if you can’t tell). And yes, just be nice.

Of course, in most offices in my part of the country, and I suspect in many other areas, is that the janitors are often Hispanic, with language being a common barrier. I wouldn't want to speculation about their immigration status, but knowing the economics here, I wouldn't be surprised either way. Unfortunately, it works out to be a de facto caste system, with the respect dynamic that accompanies.

The cleaners were coming in after dinner. Many of them were Latin Americans, so I could engage in simple conversations to keep my Spanish fresh. A man from the Dominican Republic told me that previously he was a "periodista", a journalist, but his education wasn't applicable in the United States because he barely spoke English.

English literacy can be a huge economic advantage even in non-English speaking countries. My doctor in Tokyo could make a higher salary than ordinary Japanese doctors with the same qualifications, simply for working in an international clinic. Same goes for teachers in international schools. Many multinational companies which require English in their branch offices will pay higher than average salaries for engineers, sales and management.

1. It's nice to be important, but it's important to be nice.

2. Never forget where you came from, because you might end up back there someday.

https://learn.trakstar.com/blog/janitors-with-phds

Before anyone jumps up & objects: yes, there are a lot of homeless who don't want to talk to you, or who are downright dangerous. You can avoid those.

If anyone ever thinks taking out the trash is an unimportant job, try living without rubbish collection for a week. Suddenly it will become very important!

Show some appreciation for these people doing a very laborious and repetitive job for minimal pay, often outside regular business hours, and so probably cuts into their family time.

I would highly recommend trying to get to know the "janitors!"

Here's something I find more interesting: software consultant/pioneer Gerald Weinberg (I think!) said that if you want to find out what's wrong in an organisation, don't talk to the people who work there – talk to the janitors, landlords, etc.

These people may not understand a single thing about the work that goes on, but they deal with the physical artifacts that enable the work, and the physical artifacts always tell a story.

[0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPMlhIw8E0k

My grandfather was a public school janitor after he moved from the farm to the big city for a better opportunity to feed and raise his kids. There were more than a dozen of them so steady work was important.

He cleaned the school and in the process set his kids up to be responsible adults. My grandmother used her sewing skills to become seamstress for the wealthiest families in the city too. Neither of my grandparents ever got rich in their new work but they did survive and set their kids up for success.

He had a mischievous twinkle in his eye and he loved telling stories. With a steady supply of grandkids from all his children he never lacked for an audience.

Thanks for posting this.

“don’t trust anyone who’s nice to me but rude to the waiter. Because they would treat me the same way if I were in that position.”

“I’ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.”

(Attributed to Maya Angelou)

It's one of those things so obvious once you know. Not like I was anywhere near a total jerk beforehand, but it changed how I approached lots of different interactions.

At first, when I enrolled into this job 7 to 3, to keep a designated govt area clean, I was fascinated with the fact I clock at 3 PM. This gig was to earn extra $$ for my upcoming trip.

First day was entertaining as I do believe making things clean and in order is rewarding. But after a week of shoving the broom, I understood a few concepts: no matter how hard you fight the dust, sand, leaves on the street — next day will bring you the same. On top of it, humans litter. And they litter a lot. On top of it, the area had a pond. And we used to get a boat with the old-timer working there in his retirement and fish out plastic bags, glass bottles from the bottom of the pond. It was disgusting at what people do to the nature at this leisure area they have...

The only thing this job taught me is to throw the garbage into a bin, and if I miss — pick it up and put it back myself. And the next second thing, is that this job teaches you to be humble and disciplined. As it reduces your potential to one of the most primitive functions a human being can perform for money.

Given this, the condescending tone that is deemed as nice by the small-talk initiator — is plain hypocrisy to make him feel like a good person and show off with the blog post we have right now.

when they do i've found that it's worth listening, they sometimes have very interesting things to say.

same used to go for nyc cab drivers, although it's a bit different in the uber era. i have a book sitting on my shelf that was written (and self promoted) by a cab driver.

If we are talking about personal home cleaning, the personal interactions are more important and would be welcome because building those personal relationships is very important to maintain clients.

I know there are lots of TV shows and movies about this, so it’s not a novel idea or anything, and I understand the potential for it to backfire, but I can’t overstate the cooperative benefits of gratitude if you really understand and appreciate what it is everyone is contributing.

You are not requested to engage in small talk every time that isn't OP point. Also while I usually say hello to every worker with whom I have eye contact, I obviously don't interrupt busy people.

The point is that some office workers avoid eye contact with janitors and they shouldn't.

As my former boss used to say a good recruitment process start by asking receptionist if the candidate treated them well.

Without service workers our work conditions could literally turn into a pile of shit and they deserve utter respect.

If you claim to have a secure working environment, I'm not looking for an unsecured VPN, or an unpatched SSH server, I'm asking who cleans up. The two correct answers are:

* Nobody, that's why this place looks like a fucking wreck.

* We all take turns, I hate it.

If you have cleaners, there is no way that's not a security risk. Firstly you probably pay a contractor, which means you're not even interviewing or vetting these staff. The contractor will say they do that, but they're actually picking up as many illiterate immigrants as they can who'll take less than minimum wage and be happy nobody checked their documentation, because they keep the profits. Even if the management doesn't do that, their people on the ground do. Secondly, even if you hire these staff yourself, realistically your standards are poor and turnover is high. Nobody has "Clean up other people's trash" as their career goal except in some vague "Fix the Pacific garbage island" elevator pitch sense.

So either way if I want access to your "secure" environment I just have to pretend to need the work and ignore all the red flags to get a cleaning job. And then, as the article implies, I become invisible. A guy in a Ninja outfit roaming the offices late at night is a call to the cops. But put them in overalls and give them a black plastic sack now they're a cleaner, carry on. What's in the sack? It's just garbage of course. Well, OK it's the 23-25 financial strategy, a copy of our internal price list and six unlabelled USB drives that used to be on people's desks. No problem, the black sack covers many sins.

I used to work 9 to 5 (sometimes 9 to 8) and sure, I can greet the janitor, have some small talk, but I dont have the time to listen to their life story. And some janitors really liked to talk a lot, while I just wanted to finish my job and go home. (If they started at 6pm they were fresh at the beginning of their shift, while I should have already left 1 hour earlier).

So I understand why my colleagues (especially ones who had kids) ignored the janitors. If you leave 15 minutes earlier, you have 15 more minutes for your kid. If you are late the kid will be asleep.

And yes I talked with janitors, but I remember that one lady who thought that everyone can talk with her for 30 minutes at 7pm and just wouldnt take a clue to move on.

She didnt understand that the team was stuck at work after hours to finish something important, it was an abnormal situation.

Next time she was at our table I commented to her that people who treat her like garbage are simply showing their inner self, which is in fact garbage.

Indeed you can learn a lot about a person by how they treat people who are in their service.

There’s personal reasons for this, which aren’t really relevant (for example, I am mostly self-taught, and have been treated like crap for most of my life by those with formal schooling), but I’ve often found these folks to be interesting, appreciative of the respect, great sources of information (when you are invisible, people say stuff around you), and, quite often, able to be very helpful.

At my previous company, I made friends with the service techs, down in the basement. They provided my department with thousands of dollars worth of utility kit (like cables and batteries), and often fixed my stuff, very quickly.

It's about ignoring the humanity around us.

Yes, we're all tasked at work, and have limited bandwidth and interest.

But still: prioritizing kindness make the world a better place for everyone, because it's a way of shouting quietly: I am not a tool, and neither are you.

This applies to how developers treat QA, or marketers treat developers, leads and newbies, etc. Because that's where it seems my task involves getting you to deliver.

Instead, help others feel respected, and want to do their job, instead of having to do their job. Don't be surprised if they don't: it's their choice.

Actual janitors/facility maintenance people, on the other hand, are usually super interesting to talk to about maintenance/infrastructure issues, potential efficiency or other upgrades, etc.

Conversely, people are careful to stay on guard to threats and opportunities in interpersonal power-games, and so when they see the janitor, the fact that politics does not apply makes them relax and behave naturally: This is either rudely or nicely, depending on the individual's character.

Americans being way friendler.

Many people when talking to janitors use the more colloquial 2nd person. That's really harsh if you ask me, unless you know them very well.

I don't know all the names of the security and janitorial folks, but I do know a few.

There are bubbles, I get it. But how prevalent is this?

“God dammit, you’ve got to be kind.”

This quote, and idea, has stuck to me more than any I’ve ever read. Be kind, because… well, why not?

Why is this on top of HN? "Mind blown, I just learned about the concept of treating people nicely regardless of their job"?

It's completely unfair. And when I just see the janitor it's all I think about.

This article is like, be nice to the people you step on. Yeah. I don't disagree with that sentiment.