Comment by tombert | Hacker News Reader

Comment by tombert | Hacker News Reader

Good.

I'm sorry, I'm generally Mr. "Raw raw free speech", but let's not kid ourselves; by all accounts KiwiFarms is (and always has been) a cesspool of horrible people. It's not like 4chan or something, where it might have started with reasonable intentions and just became horrible; KiwiFarms was started for the specific purpose of bullying Chris-Chan, hence why it was initially called Cwcki Farms. KiwiFarms has been implicated in multiple suicides, and countless cases of bullying (and possibly doxing), and Null's response to all of these allegations has been almost entirely ambivalent.

At some point, we have to ask: is this the world we actually want to live it? I think Marjorie Taylor Greene is a moron, but even I think that the doxing and SWATing campaigns against her lead to a really bad world to live in, and that's not even getting into people I actually like.

I'm just some idiot on the internet, but I think that the world is a better place without KiwiFarms.

Didn’t the swat call announce they were a kf user? Seems a little odd. Moreover, are home addresses of congress people public info? It seems like a lot of people were fine with posting the addresses of Supreme Court members.

I don’t think Whataboutisms are a good arguing tactic. I am against the doxing of anyone, even if I don’t like them. Hence why I mentioned that I think MTG is a moron, but I’m still against her being doxxed.

I couldn’t find anything about home addresses of congresspeople being public. I am not a lawyer, but I would be very surprised if that was public info. I could be wrong.

> It seems like a lot of people were fine with posting the addresses of Supreme Court members.

Even if you think that kind of protest is a step too far (I do), you surely agree that there's a fundamental difference between peaceful protest at the home of a public figure (which is quite clearly what happened) and the practice of SWATing, which even in its least dangerous form is a perjurious accusation of a serious crime.

The Jan 6th riots were peaceful, until they weren’t.

Everybody has a right to feel safe in their own home.

I agree with everything you wrote. Protesting at someone's home is still not the same thing as SWATing them, and I think you know that.

SWATing is attempted murder. I just felt like that should be plainly stated.

>Everybody has a right to feel safe in their own home.

Bit of a devil's advocate here: I think private ordinary citizens should have this right. I think a lot of public figures have forgotten they're meant to be servants, not rulers. And I don't mean the supreme court, but congress and the senate. They fought and machinated and put great effort into attaining that position of power which they can abdicate at will any time they don't like the downsides. The fact that they don't says quite a lot. When you've built up all sorts of protective layers and alliances to protect yourself from any real accountability, it's invariably to the detriment of the people at large.

The People's History of the United States by Zinn is full of incidents of the people taking up arms en masse and getting what I would call justice for the little guy. Things like that are denigrated in the harshest possible terms and slandered and libelled with religious fervor these days. But I've read about Ruby Ridge, and Waco. The government was clearly the bad guy in those cases. But where was the accountability? One of the perpetrators at Waco was nearly nominated the head of the ATF instead of facing life in prison for killing children.

Shouldn’t the question be why is “SWATing” even possible?

I think that should be a question, but it shouldn't be the question.

Because people in the US love taking other people hostage with firearms, in particular in domestic abuse scenarios.

It is a very problematic catch-22 situation that is not helped by cops playing GI-Joe with combat gear.

Hostage situations happen all over the world.

I think it’s pretty safe to assume that MTG or her people were behind her swatting attempts.

IMO it's more likely that one member of the anti-KF crew was responsible for the false flag. Most of them are also far to the left, and MTG is a fun target for them.

Aren't far left people generally against police? Sure they'll call the police when they need them, but they wouldn't go out of their way to contact the police unless they themselves had been harmed.

Far left activists are often against police, but it appears that they like the SWAT teams (ironically). MTG herself has had at least 3 SWAT calls on her. Many other public right-wing figures have also had a lot of SWAT calls.

You don’t have to be “far to the left” to oppose MTG; you just have to be a decent human.

I hadn’t heard of kiwi farms, but I did used to follow the cwcki. Yeah, bad from the start.

actually it hasn't been implicated in any suicides and I implore you to stop saying shit that you've heard from some random bloke

The part that’s missing here is that the people KF are fighting are on the exact same level. Keffals doxed the KF owner’s mom, lied about the mom being an active KF user and called for her firing:

https://archive.ph/15nHu

Keffals has called for SWATing:

https://web.archive.org/web/20220810180051/https://twitter.c...

Do you really think a KF user would SWAT a GOP Congresswoman in the middle of this fight over their DDoS protection, and the call the cops to identify themselves as a specific Kiwi Farms user (moderator “AltisticRight”), one who denies any involvement in this? To me that sounds highly suspect. We will likely never know the truth.

And here’s a box of the Internet pharmacy hormones Keffals instructs kids to buy and self-dose in secret, without medical evaluation or parental knowledge:

https://archive.ph/zZMRp

See “Homebrew”, first shop link:

https://archive.ph/K9hh4

I don’t recall defending Keffals as I do not know who that is, so I have no intention of addressing the first half of your post.

In regards to your second point, I don’t know. If it is the case that someone from KiwiFarms is SWATing people, and Null is ambivalent about it, then a world where KiwiFarms is tolerated is not one that I would like.

Considering how much of a jackass Null was in regards to Byuu/Near’s suicide, it really doesn’t seem out of character.

That guide is a useful resource for trans people of all ages.

If your gender dysphoria is destroying your mental health and your parents will send you to torture camp for being on hormones, then taking hormones in secret is the moral thing to do.

Doctors not performing tubal ligations on women and other afab people under 30 is pure, unadulterated misogyny.

edit: responding to post by deepdriver below, SEGM is a torture-promoting group (yes, conversion therapy is torture) funded by dark money. https://transsafety.network/posts/segm-uncovered/

Oh, and also, if your gender dysphoria is destroying your mental health then focusing on fertility is just patriarchy. At the individual level, reproduction is a morally neutral act. Improving your mental health is a morally good act, so it clearly takes priority.

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