High-dose Vitamin B6 reduces anxiety and strengthens visual surround suppression | Hacker News Reader

High-dose Vitamin B6 reduces anxiety and strengthens visual surround suppression

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

129 pointsbookofjoe31 comments

The participants of study referenced here tool 100mg tablets daily for 30-35 days. Before you start popping B6, keep in mind that supratherapeutic doses of >500mg pyridoxine have been linked to peripheral neuropathy and other CNS issues.

Furthermore, the whole subject of B6/B12 supplementation and dosage is muddied by all sorts of facebook groups and self-reported anecdotes as well.

I personally would stick to improving my diet rather then experimenting with supplements.

Do you know if supratherapeutic dose of B6 combined with a megadose of B1 would avoid peripheral neuropathy? Already people taking DCA (peripheral neuropathy-inducing as well) take megadoses of B1 to avoid that issue.

They're talking about B6. It's not worth risking permanent nerve damage until further studies clarify things.

I meant B6, not sure why I made the B2 typo. Fixed.

What clinical evidence is there that the neuropathy would be avoided? Feels very "old lady who swallowed a fly" to mitigate the risks of supertherapeutic doses of one compound with megadoses of another compound. Why would you tolerate that risk?

B1 seems to be safe at any levels (excess excreted in urine and helps kidneys in addition) and is popular among people with peripheral neuropathy.

Peripheral neuropathy is the symptom, not the underlying issue. Zyrtec is popular among people who frequently sneeze but it's probably not what you're looking for if you're ingesting so much of a substance that it makes you sneeze uncontrollably.

Do you really want to be the person who has to explain to the doctor that you have no feeling in your hands because you're taking so much B6 every day for a bit of anxiety relief that it fried your nerves, but you thought that you could just cancel it out by taking a ridiculous amount of B1? Especially when there's so much else that can treat anxiety, including well-studied and benign things like lavender oil?

I agree with you in regards to diet. Over the last 24 months I slowly, and with many stumbles, changed my entire approach to eating. A foundation of raw fruits and vegetables (carotenoids ftw) with higher protein and fat consumption. Avoiding sugars and carbs but not religiously. I was overweight to obese for 15 years it's like a new lease on life. That said about 10 months ago I started practicing mindfulness and meditation and I think that had the biggest impact on lowering stress and anxiety for me personally but lifestyle changes absolutely had a big impact. I wanted to chime in because a big part of my dietary transition was held in place due to rising food costs. YMMV but for me the produce section became much, much cheaper than all but the most bottom rung foodstuffs at the grocery when it came to packing lunch and snacks for the day, it also helped to really limit my meat intake so I actually replaced most of that with dairy (Greek yogurt, cheese, etc). I don't expect food prices to go anywhere but up over the short to medium term so I think supplements are going to really be worth looking at for a lot of people who want to nudge themselves to a better spot physically and mentally. But do not expect miracles, I've found a lot of my better health was so gradual in affect that it was only by looking back that I realized how much better I was doing.

> But do not expect miracles, I've found a lot of my better health was so gradual in affect that it was only by looking back that I realized how much better I was doing.

That should be underlined. So true. Thank you for sharing your experience!

Edit: typo

I'm taking 100mg B1, 200mg B6 and 0.2mg B12 everyday for the last few years, no issues.

Beware Vitamin B6 Toxicity above 200mg per day

"However, none of the studies had sensory nerve damage at a daily intake below 200 mg pyridoxine per day"

Vitamin B6 Toxicity Hemminger A, Wills BK.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK554500/

The outcome is not very strong is it? I looked at the table where they show the depression and anxiety scores. I mean sure I guess 52 -> 47 matters statistically - but does it for an individual? I doubt it. Also I‘d be highly dubious of the opening statement that almost everybody is „borderline deficient in vitamin B6“…

mhm and also quite funnily: „ […] were randomised to receive either Vitamin B6, Vitamin B12, or placebo tablets. However, due to technical problems that resulted in some missing data and also because no single outcome measure was included in all phases of data collection the number of participants completing each outcome measure was in all cases less than the full sample size.“

That's about the same effect size as the better therapy studies. And it's a lot cheaper than meeting with a counselor once a month.

Interesting - that‘s quite shattering to hear actually, I don‘t think I will bother with therapy then.

Any references?

FDA RDIs (https://www.fda.gov/media/99069/download):

- Vitamin B6: 1.7mg

- Vitamin B12: 2.4mcg

The study uses 100mg Vitamin B6 (~60x RDI) and 1000mcg Vitamin B12 (~417x RDI) for a month. High doses have been previously associated with toxicity symptoms:

- Vitamin B6 (> 100mg/day): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18060778/, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15473987/.

- Vitamin B12 (1000mcg/day for 2 weeks): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31018715/

Personally, I would try to get Vitamin B6/B12 from diet as much as possible. B6 is available from a variety of foods (https://www.famnom.com/nutrient/1175/). Interestingly, Vitamin B12 is available from dairy and milk (https://www.famnom.com/nutrient/1178/), not just meat.

For vitamin B12, the best source is liver, e.g. chicken liver (16.6 mcg / 100 g raw chicken liver) (when eating liver, one should take care to not eat too much, as liver, especially other kinds of liver than chicken liver, e.g. turkey liver, can provide too much vitamin A, but the quantity of chicken liver that provides enough B12 is much less than that which provides too much vitamin A).

For vitamin B6, garlic has a higher content (1.2 mg / 100 g) than all the sources listed at the link given above, with the exception of some kinds of nuts, e.g. pistachios.

Liver is a nutrient powerhouse! Chicken, beef, lamb liver all good choices in moderation. However, few are unsafe for consumption even in small quantities - https://www.nature.com/articles/164530a0

After doing a Google news search for "high dose vitamin b6" I know now I'm going to have either less anxiety or major health issues.

It gives a whole new meaning to "You can rest when you're dead"

Vitamin B stores seem to be a big trend here, popping up in malls and such.

Surprised the FTC doesn't stop them. Making all kind of claims etc.

Devils advocate: What if Australian's were right all along and marmite actually is good? And the simple joy of marmite cured depression and anxiety?

This just really sounds like you've never tasted marmite...

I am wary of high supplementation doses, most supplements out there are contaminated with heavy metals and other pollutants.

YMMV, Vitamin B6 does the opposite for me. Any large amounts of it in vitamins gives me crazy anxiety and restlessness.

Any vitamin?

Considering how diverse they are in mechanism and effect, that seems like a rather broad statement.

Think you misread the comment!

Yes. I did.

Apologies.

> Any large amounts of it in vitamins

it = B6

I would second that. I get dizzy and tingly all over. Weird heartbeat mechanism, etc. I take vit-d and fish-oil supplements but stay away from regular multivitamins. It just causes my system to go all crazy on me.

Maybe worth noting there's different kinds of B6 - Pyridoxal 5 Phosphate and Pyridoxine Hydrochloride and that pyroxidine hydrochloride was used here.

PLP has some interesting effects at higher doses such as lowering prolactin levels and increasing dopamine, but can also be quite toxic when taken at higher doses.

There is also a supplement called emoxypine which is a b6 derivative which also is quite potent anxiolytic.

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