Our screwdriver took three years [video]
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https://products.wera.de/en/kraftform_kompakt_kraftform_komp...
https://products.wera.de/en/screwdrivers_series_kraftform_mi...
https://products.wera.de/en/tools_for_bicycles_and_e-bikes_f...
I'll compare to my time in Paintball years ago. Any site marketing woodsball gear to paintballers had nutty markups, but if you went to any Army Surplus or Hunting outfitter you could get a lot of similar gear for way cheaper at better quality because it wasn't marketed specifically to a niche sport relying on brand name alone.
It happens all over the place. Consumers not doing their due diligence have only themselves to blame.
I'm still not going to buy it because it's too expensive and I don't care enough. But most of the cost here is associated with a small player trying to make a product from scratch rather than using existing tooling, molds, parts, etc. That seems very different than how you characterized it.
Yes, but is that really so bad? I mean you can get cheaper T-Shirts with better quality than the ones at the merch stand at concerts. People don’t buy them because they are under some delusion that their great value for price. They buy them to support the creators, and to be able to show and talk about their support of the creator to others.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=wiha+scre...
they make some excellent torx, security torx, hex, precision screwdriver sets. in addition to the larger stuff they make for 600/1000V insulated electrical use.
I wish electronics were built with Torx screws. Those are practically impervious to stripping if fully inserted, even with the cheapest steel possible (though cheap steel drivers can probably still deform and strip). I've heard mixed things about using JIS (looks like Phillips, isn't Phillips) screwdrivers on Phillips screws, and good things about using them in JIS screws.
I think the Phillips tips are both too soft, and misshapen and too tapered so they cam out easily (often stripping the steel in the process) rather than locking solidly onto the screw socket. I do not see any Pozidriv bits with diagonal ridges in this kit, though some older screwdriver kits I have contain them.
I addition I am using the Wiha 26-IN-1 Tradesman multi bit screw driver - love it. Has every bit you would commonly need - I keep one in the office and one in the kitchen drawer. Fantastic tool - $36 - https://bit.ly/3q1sYCa
Can't see the point of spending this kind of money on this.
Much better than the “mr ratchet” driver set I got in the 90s..(one oddly wasn’t. Ratchet driver)
Not all over-molded things use rubbers that'll break down quickly; and some don't even use rubber at all now that there are performant urethanes and other choices in the arena.
The advantage of having the quick connect right at the handle is that the bit shaft is as thin as possible which is really handing for dissassembling products/things where a screw is down in a deep recess.
The ratchet does take a little bit of force to engage which does make it average for pc building.
Bonus: they sell cabinet tip screwdrivers in the common slotted and Philips sizes.
Edited to add: Snap-On also makes good screwdrivers, and your friendly local garage can probably tell you when the Snap-On truck comes by </edit>
If you need quality slotted screwdrivers for slotted screws with both the width and thickness of the blade specified, you'll likely need to find your local gun and ammunition store (and they'll likely be a special order even there).
Gunsmiths and sewing machine repair people are just about the last people on the planet who care about the blade fitting the slot well in both directions for a wide variety of screw head sizes.
or any marine shop. slotted fasteners abound across the seven seas.
edit: its also helpful to do a quick-n-dirty case hardening if you have a gas stove or other way to get it dull red
edit: looks like Wera tools specifically are sold by a bunch of different people on Amazon, NEMobile, and BCFasteners are a couple that I've seen, so really no idea what you're getting.
Grainger stocks Wera in the US
https://www.grainger.com/category/tools?brandName=WERA&filte...
I’m optimistic given the attention to detail portrayed in this video, and the fact that Linus displays a passion for quality workmanship in his reviews of other products.
Probably a lot of people that just want them to do well in what they do. If you get a decent screwdriver out of it, that's nice I guess.
You're a big business employing dozens of people and selling millions of dollars worth of goods now, you can't have the attitude "if I don't want to do this anymore I want an out where I can just say sayonara thanks for the fish"
https://www.contorion.de/p/stier-schraubendreher-mit-bit-mag...
He usually puts a graph at the end of each segment to help you remember how each brand tested.
at the same time, youtube is really bad at exposing you to new channels that you would enjoy. they bombard you with similar videos ("here's 15 more toilet seat review videos for you!") but they're not able to extrapolate channel tastes for some reason. it's left largely up to the user to dig around for collaterally-themed channels.
This is exactly why I am working on a team to create alternative YouTube recommendations. Our algorithm is designed to surface smaller more obscure but relevant channels.
Search a channel to get a list of channels making similar content. Our recommendations for Project Farm include other tool review channels like A Concord Carpenter / Toolboxbuzz and Thrifty Tool Shed. Click through to A Concord Carpenter's list of similar channels also reveals Tools & Stuff. Thrifty Tool Shed is a great example of a very small yet relevant channel that the algorithm surfaces (~15k subscribers).
Our list of channels similar to Project Farm:
https://channelgalaxy.com/id%3DUC2rzsm1Qi6N1X-wuOg_p0Ng/
Of course there are dozens more channels on PF's list that are about more general carpentry, metalsmithing, and home-engineering projects. And you can use the search bar at the top of the page to search any other channels you watch to get their similar channels lists.
feedback:
* the galaxy map is next to useless. this is the data model, which is neat, but does nothing for usability * searching can be improved. i search for AvE but got all results with ".ave." so that could be improved * allow me to search by youtube channel URL directly, or video URL (where the service dereferences for the channel)
It lets you hold it in a few different ways, with your fingertips for work where you need to accurately feel what the tip is doing. With the palm of your hand when you need to apply lots of torque. It doesn't roll when you set it down. You can smack the end of it when you need to shock a slightly rusty or reluctant screw.
It's ironic because i think these are the cheapest design and i suspect most companies invent their own design precisely because this design is fairly evocative of old cheap mass produced hard plastic handles.
They just feel so good in your hand though. It's the perfect handle design.
You can find the same shape in mass produced modern tools with plastic handles: https://www.sears.com/craftsman-5-pc-slotted-screwdriver-set...
optimized for an extra $10.00
Megapro may have larger economies of scale and therefore lower costs, or Megapro may have already paid off / amortized the cost of development and so felt its margins were already without having that included in the price anymore.
Friendly reminder that LTT sells *all* of its desk pads and water bottles for the same price, no matter the size.
So LTT overcharging for it's smaller water bottles vs big is good? But if a company were to discount small water bottles, and raise the price of bigger, they are garbage?
wow.
Point is "adjusted the spring for lighter back-force" would normally mean the max torque you can use is reduced (because the spring slips). They state the max torque you can use to indicate the effect of the trade-off.
The fact that you think that the max torque is still way more than is needed, is probably why they advertise this. The fact that max torque is way higher than needed means they did not trade off too much max torque to reduce the back-force.
Starting with the right driver (with a perfect tip that fits snugly) will reduce the chance of camout and can help remove them, but even then it can be a tricky situation at times.
I personally find that having a really long screw driver helps - I can get more torque without slipping.
[0] https://www.kmstools.com/megapro-ratcheting-multi-bit-screwd...
I was able to find the same screwdrivers for almost 50% less at the local Altex (Texas electronics store). Looks like this ratcheting one is 42.95: https://altex.com/collections/screwdrivers/products/megapro-...
They much prefer selling to distribution.
A smooth low-backlash ratchet is the USP. Conscious decisions about materials. I can't speak to your requirements.
I ended up buying the LTT one to reduce clutter with a bunch of my current 'normal' screwdrivers, but the end price was about 110 EUR with tax and S&H. Which is rather expensive if you ask me.
[1] https://www.ifixit.com/Store/Tools/Pro-Tech-Toolkit/IF145-30...
In short, they are trying to make shipping price more fair for the average customer (including those oversea, or in remote regions) by making shipping a bit more expensive where it is cheaper.
Charging people nearby a bit extra allows them to offset some of those costs.
They provided a few examples of backpacks shipping to remote regions in Canada (I forgot the name, sorry) custom upwards of hundreds of dollars, but they capped shipping price to 50/60$ for every customer.
Very happy to hear that (I live in Europe), but obviously you're probably not a fan of the idea as much as I am hahaha
I had to ship a laptop from me on Vancouver Island to my employer in Vancouver and it cost ~$50.
Shipping in the states is cheap. Shipping in Canada, even very short distances, is not.
YouTuber's merch is generally meant to be a way of supporting a show you like, so once you factor that in, I'm happy with the price
They had a bunch of design iterations issues along the way but the bulk of it was fraud.
Isn't it Taiwanese?
> we changed to a different factory in China potentially losing our $130000 deposit in the process.
EDIT: Also a bonus mention at 27:35
Originally company isn’t the issue. The new company is who screwed over LTT. But we don’t know who the new company is.
Linus broke the convention just because he wanted to… it's just as bad as that awful "natural scrolling" that plagues laptops these days.
I disagree but good on LTT for making something they want to use. I’ll stick with my Megapro.
THE LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER:
Bits, as they are considered a consumable item;
Tools which have been subject to abuse, misuse, negligence, or improper storage;
Tools which have been used improperly e.g. using the screwdriver as a pry bar or hammer;
Tools which have been altered in any way;
Normal wear and tear (including the breakdown of materials over time);
Cosmetic damage (including scratches or changes in the finish of the plastic handle);
Products purchased from unauthorized dealers
An engineer I worked with used primarily Matco & also Snap-On & a few otehrs. He specifically said about Craftsman: "Sure, they have a lifetime warranty that you can go swap one at any store — that doesn't help you when you are out in the field and the thing breaks and you need it NOW. More than worth it to buy one that doesn't break."
I picked up that approach and can strongly recommend it. I've also bought a lot of Matco tools on eBay with very good results. They just work without problems and last effectively forever. (The one thing that hasn't lasted effectively forever was Snap-On air-powered dual orbit sanders, they only lasted a 8 years or so...)
Personally i like my tools rugged, kinda like Klein does it because "on the job" i tend to thrown them away either on purpose or by accident, this tool looks fragile, if little margins stuck the ratchet mechanism i can not wait what is going to happen when it suddenly falls from the 2nd floor while installing an Access Point or Security Camera.
I haven't used one so I don't know how durable they are, but I got the opposite impression. The juicero served no purpose. If you don't need a multi-purpose screwdriver that's one thing, but it does have plenty of use-cases and there are a lot of competitors which they showed so they are in demand to some extent. I'd say their attempt is more akin to Snap-on with how much energy they seemed to focus on ergonomics and UX, especially the ratcheting mechanism.
Or even during this exact video where he says that if you hit the max torque that this screwdriver can survive, you better have seen that your steel pc case now has a hole in it where the screw used to be.
Snap On builds "fine" tools and sells them for premium prices because their brand has a lot of mind share among the customers. Kitchenaid does the same thing.
These people don't a long established brand to power their money printer so they instead turn to marketing. If you want to market an expensive screwdriver to the kind of people who buy them hyping up the manufacturing process is a great way to go about it.
1. They will outfit your new shop on a payment plan (or at least they did at one time), allowing a new mechanic to get started with a full set of tools for not much money.
2. Their reps come to you with a big truck loaded with common replacement tools and calibration machines. How many people ever read the fine print that says their torque wrench requires calibration every six months, let alone bother to do so?
Kitchenaid stand mixers are selling the fact that they're a classic heavily built design not cheap thin plastic and they're still built in the USA.
Not everyone wants to buy the cheapest $5 widget available and I'm glad the market is able to serve different types of customers. Obviously that can be taken to an extreme (the entire audiophile market for example) but finding product-market fit and serving a specific set of customers shouldn't be demeaned as just "branding".
We actually sold fancy bike tools including Park, which is the allegedly professional brand in cycling.
I enjoyed the flex of being able to work extremely fast with those extremely shiny tools. Hence, for irrational reasons I see Snap On as a premium brand to not be questioned, even if all evidence is contrary.
Intel is like that for me, I have heard AMD are better but I cling onto this notion that Intel are always better for floating point and, even though I have no evidence of that, my mind is made up. I will take that Intel CPU and I don't care if it is slower, takes twice the electricity and costs more.
With Snap On I do not know how well their business was able to pivot to the web where you can get whatever tool you want from the jungle store, next day. The Snap On van brought excellence to our door with every specialist tool you could wish for. Price didn't matter because you would need to drive hours to find a stockist of lesser brands.
My personal favourite screwdriver to 'flex' is my Silicon Graphics screwdriver. We have bonded and I am not going to upgrade to some YouTuber's screwdriver.
Megapro (LTT's partner on this) has been selling this type of ratcheting driver w/ bit storage in the handle for 25 years and is pretty well reviewed. How did you manage to make the leap to Juicero & only "saved by LTT logo" nonsense from such a well established, long-running product?
Going to a store knowing the LTT driver is a rebranded Magapro, why would any consumer want to pay the markup besides the brand name?
For me, the LTT driver's only notable differences are not valuable additions to justify the cost. I think that's where the Juicero comparison enters: they've added unnecessary engineering to a tool that doesn't require it, then marked up the price for something most people will never require.
It's not a rebranded Megapro, as the video goes into great details to elaborate on. But even if you just look at them, it's obviously not a white label rebrand. Which you (and OP) is obviously aware of by then also slamming it for having "unnecessary engineering". It can't both be a label rebrand and have unnecessary engineering - those are mutually exclusive, completely opposite ends of the spectrum complaints.
Whether or not the differences are worth $10 is a different question, and altogether extremely different in both scope & tone to the juicero comparison.
> they've added unnecessary engineering to a tool that doesn't require it
What unnecessary engineering?
Foremost is the knurling on the shaft. It's additional machining for an essentially useless addition. All the hullabaloo about torque strength for the relevant use cases also seems overdone.
My experience is PC repair, both professionally and hobbiest. I've got my share of experience in vehicle repair and electrical panel assembly as well so I'm not totally inexperienced with relevant tools.
Calling that "engineering" seems like a stretch. Unnecessary cost maybe, but it's not a unique feature to the LTT driver by any means. Heck, the $13 Amazon Basics driver has a knurled shaft ( https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-12-in-1-Magnetic-Ratchet... ). So calling it useless also seems like a leap. It lets you turn the shaft directly, using it more like an (also knurled) ifixit driver.
> All the hullabaloo about torque strength for the relevant use cases also seems overdone.
I think you misunderstood that. They didn't brag about having high torque, they were instead saying that the super low back drag they obsessed over (the best that project farm tested, fwiw) didn't kill the ability to handle torque.
I don't think this would break if you drop it from a person's height, but it may break if you drop from the 2nd floor. Just like any similar one.
I guess the lesson here is that you don't want a multipurpose screwdriver if you will work on the top of a ladder. It will just bring you extra problems. (Although I do use mine a lot that way, usually because it's already around. It does bring extra problems.)
Here is a link to the relevant section https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K5Gqp1cEcM&t=819s
You have to buy a proprietary packet of orange juice and vodka?
If you have ever used a ratchet wrench for nuts or bolts vs. an open-end or box wrench, the difference between the ratchet screwdriver and a regular one is much the same as the difference between using a ratchet wrench vs. an open-end/box wrench to tighten/loosen a nut or bolt.
The ratchet in their screwdriver, from the video, has a ratchet sound very similar to the Snap-On model I have.
[1] Current version: https://shop.snapon.com/product/Standard-Handle/8-3-4%22-Rat...
It seems similar to the "why do precision screwdrivers have that spinny part on the back?"
This allows me to keep a good grip and the pressure on the screw all the time, ensuring the screwdriver head doesn't slip out of position.
I also find it faster to just twist the shaft of the screwdriver once the screw is loose, something which I find easier with a ratcheting screwdriver (many have a knurled section on the shaft for this).
And a good ratcheting screwdriver allows you to lock the mechanism, so you have the best of both worlds.
I never really liked ratcheting drivers but I might make an exception for the PB Swiss (jury's out on the LTT driver). It feels like a real screwdriver when you lock the ratchet.
It is hard to trust a “brand” any more. From 2017 there is a great summary of brand ownership here: https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gear/a28359/mega...
The consolation of design and manufacturing has lead to some quality problems for existing hand and power tool brands.
This is shown in action at this point in the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K5Gqp1cEcM&t=606s
In many ways, this mimics the function of a jewelers screwdriver:
I guess it's just a personal preference thing rather than a real need of some sort, which IMO is fair enough
What goes away with the ratchet is the continuous clench/unclench action. While I don't normally have any other RSI-like issues, that movement just kills my wrist after 1 or 2 screws. I've got a ratchet screwdriver with an option to twist/bend it in the middle to get better leverage and the difference is amazing.
This can be annoying (it is always for me) and a mechanism where you can arm the next 1/4 turn without disengaging the screw is great
PS. when I say 1/4 of a turn, this is to to indicate the torsion of the wrist. Could be more, could be less
[1] Literally free, I was given it at some conference.
It doesn't ratchet. It's basically just a bearing so you can push down on the top and the rest of the screwdriver can move freely—hard to explain I suppose.
If you know how to juice it, you can do amazing things with a bit driver, especially since you can put a lot of force to keep the bit set and still get it to turn.
People tend to draw analogues to ratcheting wrenches but the entire point of ratcheting wrenches is to avoid having to remove them from the bolt to spin it making it easier to use in tighter locations. No such benefit exists for screwdrivers due to their geometry.
His other point about "not wanting to leave a burden to his family" is also bunk. If your business has a bus factor of 1, that's on you, that's your fault, and you can fix that. Never mind that most business laws work out to remove personal liability from business liability.
He seemed to take it personally that people wanted written assurance that their $250!!! backpack could be fixed, despite the fact that he is on record, on the WAN show, talking about how Linus Media Group and Linus Sebastian are different entities with different priorities and often different desires about what to do in a situation. Even Luke thought he was going too far with his view and opinion on the matter.
Thankfully Linus seems like a reasonable person who is willing to do the right thing even if he doesn't personally agree with it, and they now offer a written warranty.
There is no valid argument for "I don't want my customers to have warranty rights".
Besides the fact that IMHO a ratchet screwdriver (or more generally 1/4" bits ones) seems like very ill suited for working on computers (too bulky) usually screws on this kind of equipment are rarely very tightened and almost never (unlike in automotive/motorbike/industrial work) dirty/rusted/blocked, so chances of ruining any - if not el-cheapo, "decent" - normal ratchet screwdriver (or its bits) is near to 0.
But if Wurth sells(?) one for US$ 116.60:
https://www.wurthusa.com/Tools/Hand-Tools/Screwdrivers/Assor...
at around 70 bucks this one is a steal. /s
Or at least, it has really high design goals and is expensive to produce.
https://www.amazon.de/AmazonBasics-12-in-1-Magnetic-Ratchet-...
I feel like most of the stuff I'd be using a screwdriver on came from the US, or Japan, or somewhere else. Especially electronics
I don't know if I buy that, LTT has never targeted a Canadian audience. If anything they try to make you forget they're Canadian. They only ever say US prices for things, which makes sense since that audience is way bigger. So I don't know why they'd target a screwdriver to Canadians.
I guess maybe they wanted a more general screwdriver? They don't seem to have the smallest bits either like you might want for general electronic repair or weird bits like the tri-wing or gamebit.
If this is meant to be a general around-the-house screwdriver set, then the price point is way off. If this is meant to be more of a tech-focused set, missing Torx seems really dumb.
(Note, many but not all are designed to accept a Philips driver, with a visible cross that slightly extends past the 45 degree angled robertson opening, plus having some visible slopes to the edges rather than near 90 degree edges that a screw deigned for only slotted or Robertson would be expected to have. But there are some that are strictly flat and Robertson only).
For those particular screws the best bit is allegedly the ECX bit, which is basically a Robertson Flathead combo bit, and the second best bit to use is the appropriate sized Robertson bit, with Flathead next, and Philips being best avoided.
This makes including a Robertson driver actually not too unreasonable. I in the US have plenty of switches and outlets could be driven with it.
For automotive it's a different story, but then I'd use a ratchet wrench anyway, and fixed screwdrivers in the engine bay as the bits like to fall off in the worst places.
The bits are not retained by magnet, but by a bit-mounted sprung ball bearing. If I don't push the bit in hard enough, it'll just fall right out when I turn it over. It's like that comedy bit: "What time is it?" when someone is holding a drink in their watch hand.
This probably is what led to the #2 Phillips bit being lost the first week I had it when my kids borrowed it to unscrew something in the yard, but that first week was pretty glorious...
And the bits are surprisingly hard to find. Searches on Amazon have turned up few if any replacements, and it doesn't seem like Channellock has a replacement bit set.
Finally, the ratchet mechanism is surprisingly easy to flip while using it, so most sessions I have with it I end up having to reset the ratcheting one or more times in regular use.
Admittedly, Linus talks up how much they worked on getting it just right, but I'd be reluctant to get another driver that used the ball bearing bits. I'd go with something that has replacement bits available, or uses the same bits that my power driver uses, because I always keep bits for it around.
I hate flat screwdrivers with a passion, but that one AvE made years ago is sure a thing of beauty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shnpPFQAugU
They do have custom bits, but say they will provide replacement bits, and also have a mechanism for using regular magnetic hold bits. That's pretty huge!
disclaimer: im swiss.
The 1/4" socket and shaft is bulky (as well as the handle) and the ratcheting is largely unneeded, a good set of screwdrivers, unless there is a portability issue, is much more practical in a workshop.
I prefer the "longer bit" drivers that you can find (Milwaukee 48-22-2131 for example) but the best drivers in my experience are the screwdrivers with really long thin shanks.
- Have independent opinions of the product on the website
- Avoid "kickstarter syndrome" (since they have to have mass-production ready before selling them this way)
I for one applaud them for pushing through to release this, and while I probably won't buy one, they certainly look well made and thought through. Obviously a ratcheting multi-bit driver won't be as robust as your Klein Phillips driver that you use while working on transformers in your day job, but that's not what it's intended for - it's for the average person who needs a handy screwdriver to keep in their car or kitchen junk drawer to pull out quickly when you need to twist some screws.
https://chapmanmfg.com/products/5573-deluxe-standard-metric-...
Same money (slightly less), made in USA, the kind of quality tool you find in the locked part of the old plant maintenance tech that everyone else asks for help.
The first primary employee responsible for the screwdriver was the affable but very young Alex ("I know SolidWorks"). I like his car review videos!
Then towards the like the last third of the project lifecycle they hired this guy with a decade of experience, but wasn't it mostly in EE?
> Linus himself has product management experience
In a PC hardware reseller company. That's about making decisions about what products to buy/stock, not about designing/building something. Quite different. He's most likely aware of the difference, but was still using that phrasing in the video. shrug.
People are clearly commenting without actually watching the video.