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You're not paying with your data, you're paying with the foundations of functioning society and democracy that are being algorithmically subverted by a totalitarian slave state. The very things that trend on TikTok in the West are banned and filtered in China for a reason.

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Jingoism. "Facebook may algorithmically subvert the foundations of society and democracy, but at least it's being done by a state I support."

Who is defending facebook in this discussion?

Anybody who isn't trying to ban it as they try to ban TikTok, unless they see a material difference in the behavior of the applications other than hypernationalism.

Ban both for kids. Double ban Instagram. If nobody has planted a flag in your moral center, you'll rarely find a reason to mention TikTok by name when talking about the manipulation and surveillance that social media decided it wants to be.

I have no love for facebook, but if we're talking about protecting kids from exploitative social media, it's probably beneficial to focus on platforms they actually use.

Not that I support Facebook, but it's impossible to be moral absolutist in today's world. You either support western democracy with all it's imperfections or you are supporting authoritarian / totalitarian states. Everyone who pretend to be "politically neutral" will always be helping later.

UPD: Yeah I meant "later" and not "former". Corrected.

who is 'you'? white people in the 10% of so of nato;anzac countries? maybe

the rest of he world is not interested on keep perpetuating the status quo

> who is 'you'?

Those of us who want to live in countries without concentration camps.

like guantanamo ?

>Everyone who pretend to be "politically neutral" will always be helping former.

I'll assume you mean latter, easy mistake to make.

Personally I find the "if you aren't supporting the ridiculous things we're doing you're supporting the enemy" argument ridiculous. I'm capable of thinking both need to seriously change, and think it's a better use of my time to try and change the Western Democracy I am a part of as it's supposed to change if I disagree with it. It's strange how that point of view gets me labeled a (possibly unintentional) traitor.

I'm neither meant to mark anyone as traitor nor I like how Facebook affected society. At the same time I totally for any limitation or sanctions against media companies controlled by totalitarian or authoritarian states. Allowing literal "enemy" propoganda machines to run freely while they banned everything in their own countries is madness.

Disclaimer: I'm not US or EU citizen. I just seen how my home country changed from liberal state of almost absolute freedom into authoritarism and then into fascism. Western democracies do all kind of things I dont like, but at least they dont risk to burn planet in nuclear fire.

A Western democracy invented nuclear fire, is the only country to have ever burned anyone in nuclear fire, and is currently threatening the two largest nuclear powers on the basis of their border disputes.

Where has any US official threatened Russia or China with nuclear attack?

>I'm neither meant to mark anyone as traitor

Saying anyone who doesn't fully back Western democracies is supporting the enemy is calling them a traitor. Maybe that wasn't your intention, but providing support to the enemy is a textbook definition of traitor.

I did not say that you suppose to fully back western democracies or their governments. What I said is that you cant play "politically neutral" by pretending that Facebook (that obviously affected by some US state actors) is as evil as CCP backed company.

Facebook and Zukerberg personally obviously have political agenda, influence and censorship. At the same time it's not the same thing as totalitarian state agenda and censorship.

If it's jingoism to support Western enlightenment values, liberal democracy, and basic human rights, then yeah I guess I'm a jingo.

none of which are exclusive to 'western' countries and even less demonstrated by the actions of the big corporations and governments

zuckerberg pelosi liz truss elon musk et al are not paragons of virtue and they are the people being defended here

There's a patriot in China talking about you and your government in exactly the same way. And his government has a quarter of the incarceration rate the US does, and bases its governance on the work of one of Hegel's students.

What open forum is he able to freely discuss ideology, philosophy, and types of government again?

The difference is he's objectively and provably wrong about the comparative evil of his own government.

You've fallen for one of the most obvious and silly propaganda techniques there are.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

You believe CCP furnished statistics?

That's because China has strict censorship laws while the US protects free speech. TikTok (like Meta) follows local regulations when it comes to their content.

lol… free speech for those who don’t rock the boat. Go ask someone in the US who criticizes Israel in any serious way how their employment prospects are going.

Go ask the buried corpses of those in China who criticize the CCP anything.

Or the ones who are tortured for years before getting dumped, half dead, on a random street corner.

I suppose you have some evidence of this???

Utterly ridiculous, jingoistic nonsense. This isn't the Cultural Revolution.

No it's because TikTok is owned by the CCP and used as a tool to sow discord and subvert liberal democratic values so that it may destabilize the west and pave the way for CCP supremacy.

That's a conspiracy theory with, so far, no confirmation.

Which part is a conspiracy theory?

That the content is promoted to create disorder. Facebook has similar issues (they're even being sued for contributing to genocide) but they were never accused of the same thing (but mostly of negligence).

This thing started with Facebook being accused of being the conduit for the stealing of the 2016 election through 100K worth of ads featuring Bernie shirtless. It's hard to remember because they got utterly bored with it eventually, and they have relatives that they brag work at Facebook.

Facebook wasn't created to create social disorder as a first principle, it was created to be addictive and make MarkZ and crew billionaires. TikTok is being used to do something similar but it is completely designed to do that by a foreign power and use algorithms specifically to damage the psyche of westerners with distracting videos, tuning them to give just enough of a dopamine buzz to keep you there and coming back, and in general distract youth from pursuing more enlightening and educational activities while building a psychological profile on them to be filed away for future clandestine purposes. Or that's just my 5 minute take on it.

This is some peak moral panic material, mixed with a healthy dose of irrational nationalism (which was planted into your mind with intention, just a hint).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurting_the_feelings_of_the_...

And your point is?

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