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Comment by shp0ngle | Hacker News Reader

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shp0ngle

The biggest error is to assume people want to pay with cryptocurrency.

They just want to speculate on it; first buy, then sell. Nobody actually pays with cryptocurrency.

edit: ahh it’s in the actual article. Never mind.

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I would love to pay with crypto.

Every time I type my credit card number into some web form I think "Damn, I hope the number will not end up in some shady hands causing me trouble".

I had my credit card disabled once because someone started using it to buy stuff with it around the world. What a freaking hassle. Telephone calls, letters, several days without a CC, had to change the number everywhere .. annoying.

Paying a lightning invoice does not bear such risks.

You know that lots of card providers can generate virtual cards for free on demand these days right? Another set of details that works the same as your original card but can be used for, say, just one site and cancelled at any time if it gets misused.

If that's your only gripe than that's probably the easier way than switching to an entirely separate financial system.

It is not realistic to generate a virtual card for each purchase. It creates a documentation headache as well, such as handling returns and payment proofs.

I expect credit cards to become more like private keys in time, managed by the company, and transactions will have unique tokens so that your real number is never passed to the vendor. Blockchain like ideas will be implemented in "TradFi" without the overhead of blockchain.

You are saying that you rather would have your crypto wallet stolen instead of your credit card?

You do not need to have your card "stolen" to get into this trouble. I did not get my card stolen. You hand out the data that can cause you trouble every time you pay something. That is not the case with crypto.

what kind of misleading analogy is this? you're not sharing your private key (if you have half a brain cell anyway) when paying with crypto so why even bring this up?

How come? There's no speculation in stablecoins, USD-following or not. Especially if you transact on a layer-2 solution, it's quite convenient.

That couldn't be further than the truth. It's just a more convenient way of trading forex.

To be fair that assumption is wrong if you look at more weird specific niches. Crypto payments definitely have a place, also outside of drug markets.

Like what?

Porn, SMM, basically any international digital services on the PayPal blacklist.

Porn: I'm not up to speed on the cryptocurrency use in porn. Shouldn't this run into consumer protection issues? That is: while it and debit cards don't guarantee as simple a chargeback as a credit card, there are still laws here.

So let's say pornhub takes bitcoin (can't check, as I'm in a public place). It still needs a refunds and frauds department for those payments, no?

And pornhub does take credit cards. Yes, the fees are higher. But largely because the chargebacks are more common (spouse finds out, buyer feigns ignorance).

What's SSM in this context?

Smm = Social media marketing, buying likes and that stuff. It's a huge market actually. Porn sites also heavily set on crypto to pay their creators, paying out is even more an issue than charging in such markets.

I don't understand where the issue with refunding crypto should be. It's also way cheaper than what stripe, PayPal or co charges if users issue refunds. Personally I only save money by using crypto, I save thousands of dollars in transaction and chargeback fees every year. For me as merchants it's a non brainer.

I also use crypto as a customer but I usually trust these companies before I send money. The swiss Amazon is accepting crypto for example, as customer I trust them and all customer protections laws apply as well.

> I save thousands of dollars in transaction and chargeback fees every year

Honest question: Have you run that past a lawyer? Chargebacks are partially based in law, so while you could be saving money now, it could be by building up more and more legal liability and risk.

But maybe you'll be fine, because you refund any and all refund requests.

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