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This sort of comments really annoys me. Google call it's mail client gmail and everone is fine with it, kde does the same a few years before and call it's mail client kmail and people complains about the name all the time. Same thing with apple and it's i-names scheme for their hardware and software products.

I'm not sayint that the k-names are great and new kde applications try to avoid using it, but then a big company does it and has a big marketing budget, nobody minds it.

I think the point is that it's cheesy to use the letter as the start of a word, like spelling 'c' words with a 'k'.

That's why I think 'Krita' is a good name, and 'Konqueror' not so much.

Yeah it's cheesy but if you want to appear professional it just doesn't kut it, at least not to me .. I mean KDE is great and all, but I wish there was some committee or some board of members trying to actually design the whole user experience.

But this is many times the problem with open source desktop environments, and I don't really see any easy way to fix it .. some people have tried to create unified experiences, but those are mostly forgotten with time.

> Yeah it's cheesy but if you want to appear professional it just doesn't kut it, at least not to me

You misread your parent commenter. They meant "cheesy" as a negative thing.

> I wish there was some committee or some board of members trying to actually design the whole user experience

There is: the Visual Design Group [1].

> But this is many times the problem with open source desktop environments

Oh, and Gnome too: https://wiki.gnome.org/Design So that's two of the two major open source DE that actually have teams "trying to actually design the whole user experience".

Feel free to join them.

About Gimp, this is a word that does not mean anything in most parts of the world. But actually, I think most people don't care that much. Names is not the among the problems people mention when they struggle with the open source world.

> This sort of comments really annoys me. Google call it's mail client gmail and everone is fine with it,

huh? it's absolutely not, it's goofy as hell. I regularly have contacts / clients / etc... be like "gmail ? that's not serious".

Because it's a free product mostly intended for personal use, not because of the naming.

One expects a name@company.com style structure for professionals. It being called Gmail is not relevant.

Are all of your clients/contacts boomers? Old school jocks/bullies?

Honestly, picking up about Gmail name in 2022 is a bit anachronistic.

That is not my experience at all. Tons of big companies use Gmail in my country. Obviously they have their own domains but they use Gmail.

A goofy name is interpreted like flirting. If she's into you it's cool. If she's not, you're a creep.

"GMail" doesn't make me think of that hillbilly scene in Pulp Fiction every time I try to use the program though. It was a funny scene but not the sort of thing I want to be associated with professionally. If someone says "I use [the] GIMP" I'm not going to be able to avoid thinking "oh like those hillbillies he he he" - I might be able to avoid saying that out loud.

Being associated with uninventive names like GMail, Linux or Konqueror is a pretty comfortable level of goofiness for a professional setting. They don't mean anything, maybe we can all groan at how uninventive they are, but at least they are boring and have no real connotations and won't tempt me to make a joke that'd annoy HR. I wouldn't be the only one thinking that either.

That’s the one. Anytime I read about Gimp, my head goes „Bring out the Gimp.“ and I can’t take it seriously anymore. Then again, we’re just old people remembering an old movie, so maybe this doesn’t even ring true for young people anymore?

Well GMail rhymes nicely, Gee-mail, and it's pretty obvious what it does. KMail doesn't have the same rhythm to it, it sounds slightly middle eastern or german, like maybe it's a Polish software package or something..

The difference is these big companies spend a lot of time thinking about the application names, iPhone is genius in how simple it is.

I mean there are good names also, Linux in itself is a good name for example, it's unique and doesn't sound dorky. And Firefox and some others, I'm not blaming all of them.

Gimp might have been a good name in the mid-to-late 90s when the development of Gimp and Gnome began, but still sticking to it just doesn't make much sense to me.

> Many Open Source projects are just named damn stupidly

Stupid like "windows" for a windowing system or "word" for a word processor or "mail" for an email client or "iMessage" for a messaging system, or Pages, Numbers, or everything starting with an "i" from Apple, or everything g by Google or the endless stream of startup named like their name was created using one of those "startup name generator"?

I am a non native english speaker, if I had not discovered much of the software I know of,including Photoshop, in the late 80s when I was a kid and didn't know English I would have thought software companies were run by idiots.

But lucky me (and them) Photoshop now for me it's just a name with no actual meaning.

Is Krita worse than Photoshop as a name? Is Blender worse than Maya?

are Chrome or Safari or Edge really better than Firefox?

I'm not sure.

For context: I am not a native English speaker. My command of the English language is more than adequate for writing academic texts in English (ie, research).

I am aware of "gimp" as a derogatory term, but it pops up so infrequently, its primary connotation for me has become this piece of software. I imagine plenty of other non-native speakers would similarly only have a loose connotation to the meaning as an insult.

In other words, while names may sometimes be important, I think this case is not an instance of that for the majority of people on the planet.

> I am aware of "gimp" as a derogatory term, but it pops up so infrequently, its primary connotation for me has become this piece of software.

This is also the way our language perception generally works: The word is just the signifier, a variable. The meaning, the significate, is not inherent in the word itself.

If enough people say "gimp" and mean the software, that becomes the default inference.

You'd never get to the end state you describe if people are uncomfortable recommending the software because of the name. Word-of-mouth fails when the literal word is something you won't say.

They should change the name; it's difficult to understand why the maintainers are so attached to something so self-defeating.

That was my point: while you may have some/strong inhibitions due to this name, I don't. To me, "git" is far worse - probably because of gaps in my English, but still. You don't get why they don't change the name; I would rather folks spend effort on improving Gimp than changing its name. (Same for git btw.)

I think name changes are like bug fixes: the later in the life cycle you go for it, the more expensive. Whether that is worth the cost... in the case of Gimp and git: for you maybe yes, for me decidedly no. Doesn't mean either of us is more right than the other, but does say something about how we feel about using and talking about these pieces of software.

This guy (or girl, who am I to say) gets it.

As a non-native English speaker myself, I've known about GIMP the software years before I was familiar with "gimp" as an insult. It's kind of like Git, an odd British insult that we in the free software community know as the leading version control system.

Proprietary software is often stupidly named too, yet we take it seriously. I feel like for some people it's not the name, but the lack of associated cost that moves GIMP to the 'hobby utility' category for them.

(And yes, I'm aware Linus named Git as an insult on purpose and that he wanted to call Linux something weird too, like Freax - the questions is, why does it matter?)

I think why it matters to some people, though surely not everyone, is that words and names can evoke real responses in those people. And I mean real, like memories, feelings, associations, et cetera. Sometimes the real response is strong, even psychosomatic.

I don't think these people are faking it. Words have always seemed to have power.

When my wife and I were considering names for our child, there was one name in particular where she said that she could never name her child that. She had hated (HATED, apparently) a girl with the same name in primary school. The look on her face. The real emotions in her eyes. That name was definitely out.

I have seen people get in physical fights purely over a few words and name-calling.

I personally do not feel this way about words. I think we should not let words have such power over us. But for some people, words do matter that much.

As such, we have a choice when naming something. We can either ignore this power of words and risk having the name itself hold back adoption of the [product, service, whatever], or we can be aware of this power and conscious and conscientious in choosing how to name the thing.

I appreciate this perspective and generally agree with it, but I am also of the opinion that society evolves and so what is very inconsiderate today wasn't socially viewed as such back then. Going forward, I probably wouldn't name it GIMP, but this is decades old software.

There are people who assume malice on the part of the developers refusing to change a name that has over 20 years of 'name recognition' behind it, for better or worse. It's those people that, despite understanding their concerns to a large degree, actually make it less likely that naming will be considerate in the future.

It also doesn't help that the suggested replacement names are not much better, GIMP was forked as Glimpse because of the name. Glimpse has all sorts of potentially creepy/negative behaviors associated with it as well if one goes into it trying to analyze the name as flawed.

Speaking of the G-Word, Tim Minchin wrote a brilliant and insightful song about the power of words and the language of prejudice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw

You are right, but that could apply to any word or name regardless of its usual meaning or usage.

To me Gimp is a pretty meaningless word, though I guess that's mostly because I'm a non-native speaker and the word seems to be used so infrequently that I have a hard time judging how it's perceived in general. But usually people don't think twice about the name of brands or products if they're used to it, and are able (though not always willing) to see things in context. I doubt that Gimp's popularity would increase with a name change, critics mainly seem to have issues with the UI. Either way I use it because it does everything I need with a pretty reasonable learning curve.

I think the reason people have more of a problem with GIMP is that it's a sex thing, not that it's an insult. Whereas "git" doesn't really mean anything specific as far as I know.

Edit: Apparently gimp is also an insult directed to disabled people (I just learned).

This is the classic stupid git argument:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpAvcGcEc0k

https://montycasinos.com/montypython/scripts/argument.php.ht...

>A: (under his breath) stupid git.

From https://github.com/git/git/blob/e83c5163316f89bfbde7d9ab23ca...

"git" can mean anything, depending on your mood.

- random three-letter combination that is pronounceable, and not actually used by any common UNIX command. The fact that it is a mispronounciation of "get" may or may not be relevant.

- stupid. contemptible and despicable. simple. Take your pick from the dictionary of slang.

- "global information tracker": you're in a good mood, and it actually works for you. Angels sing, and a light suddenly fills the room.

- "goddamn idiotic truckload of sh*t": when it breaks

> you think about it constantly

Wait, really? The name of the tool is something to think about "constantly"? Why?!

To me, seriously dismissing a tool because of the name is like failing an IQ test. It is a sign of someone that wants to be spoon-fed by any sort of shit that is offered by the big companies, as long as it is packaged in nice colors.

Why? Because if you use the application, you are thinking about the name of the application. You think about "Launching Affinity Photo" for example. What if the name of the software was CripplePhoto, I mean that wouldn't be too nice to think about, or "ShitSoft FecesEditor".

Or even more not so extreme examples, for examples let's say your music player would be called "Brown Juice" or something like that, would you be happy about that application, vs for example "iTunes" or "Soundamp" or whatever.

You know these are extreme examples but just show you that the power of words is very clear in what kind of images they create in our thinking, I bet if Gimp would change their software name to something like "GNU PhotoEdit" or something like that, more people would be willing unconsciously to work and improve it also vs working on this "Gimp" that still uses that silly logo with the Gnome Mascot. It's very unprofessional and you wont attract the best designers or developers if you don't think about the big picture.

That's just my view on the thing. The package and nice colors matter, but of course the interiors and working of the software is that matters more, and on that frontend Gimp just doesn't cut it. What I'm trying to say is that maybe they could make the software better by changing it's name and design.

I mean, no professional uses Gimp for photo editing, at least I don't know anyone besides some hobbyist who rarely use photo editing, they might use Gimp. Or am I wrong ?

> What if the name of the software was CripplePhoto

Argumentum ad absurdum.

> I mean, no professional uses Gimp for photo editing

Perhaps because the lack of CMYK, the limited architecture for plugin, or the outdated UI have more to do than the name?

If the name was the real bottleneck for adoption, you can be sure that you'd see someone creating a fork with different branding and being widely successful. Oh, wait. It has been tried already! [0]

[0] https://github.com/glimpse-editor/Glimpse

> I mean, no professional uses Gimp for photo editing, at least I don't know anyone besides some hobbyist who rarely use photo editing, they might use Gimp. Or am I wrong ?

Check out https://www.rosiehardy.com/. Rosie is a commercially successful photographer who has been using GIMP for years.

I associate gimp with that full body leather suit.

Its weird when people complain about minor things like multiple windows or name when actually doing something with the program is much more complicated.

>I associate gimp with that full body leather suit.

Me too. As a non native English speaker I didn't think about that first, but then I saw Pulp Fiction.

this is what gimp was named after to begin with (specifically in reference to pulp fiction). it used to even be called "the gimp" i believe. so it kind of stands out above the crowd of mediocre open source software names by being fully intentionally awful

Easily beat by "MongoDB" and their Ruby interface "mongoid".

Much worse is naming a database with that intentionally awful name "Oracle", which immediately brings to mind that intentionally awful company run by that horrible lawnmower.

Oh wait. That's who makes it. I guess they spoiled their own name. Never mind.

...Somebody once called me the Emily Litella of the net.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZLeaSWY37I

> like with the KDE suite does it really make any sense naming your projects starting with "K" just to follow the KDE?

iTunes

iMac

iPhone

iPad

iPod

Okay, this is a Linux thing.

There is a difference between 'KMail' and 'Konqueror'.

Okay

Well, if you think about it "iMail" can be thought of combining "I" or "Me" and "Mail". So, "My Mail" or "Mail for Me".

How does "KMail" sound like phonetically ? KayMail ? KeiMeil ? It just doesn't give the same vibe. The designers at Apple know that "iPhone" means something to the user.

Even gPhone would be better, but Google has that covered already. KDE doesn't really stand for anything or it's phonetical counterpart doesn't communicate anything meaningful to the user.

I just looked it up and, K used to stand for "Kool", but already that is not a real word, doesn't look good or even sound good, at least to my ears or thinking.

Also iMac came from "Internet" back then, so it had multiple meanings behind it.

If naming is such a crucial point for free software adoption, how do you explain the success of a widely used version control system whose name is a slang word for "a foolish or contemptible person"?

You are out of touch with the latest Gnome app names.

See this https://apps.gnome.org/

Are those their real names or just what they are called in the menus? The Console one is still gnome-terminal.

I don't care too much what the names are, but it annoys me that apps have secret, hidden true names. Want to launch an app with a command line argument? Time to start grepping system files.

Real names, i.e. you search for these names (in the menu) and they show up.

So not at all real names. The search for obvious reasons also works with descriptions and a label "File Manager" is much easier to understand and search for than "nautilus".

Gnome Console and Gnome Terminal are not the same.

I'm happy to see that they have taken this direction. So much more clear and better than previously. Now I wish Gimp would be one of those softwares taking direction from that. Still, the whole "Gnome desktop" sounds silly.

And then you whip out gdb to debug an ELF executable with DWARF symbols…

The horror!

You are forgetting a very important step. You need to get the source by cloning with git

As an aside, I don't think it's the "content" of the word GIMP that's the problem necessarily. Just that because it's a single syllable, people don't instinctively recognize the pattern of sounds. Especially for non-native speaker, or people that don't know what you are talking about off the top of their head.

As opposed to Gee Mail or Eye Tunes. Don't think either would do so great as "Gail" or just "Tunes". One thing I noticed in a foreign country is that our brains fill in the details a lot when listening and that extra syllable really narrows down the possible words and sounds that you might be hearing.

> I have a hard time seeing anything named "Gimp" ever becoming a great alternative for Photoshop.

Name is least of Gimp's concerns. Backronym it to GNU/Gnome Imp, presto.

Bigger problem is they took so long to add CMYK support.

What's wrong with its current acronym, GNU Image Manipulation Program?

I said it's the least of its concerns.

Some people consider gimp to mean some kind of bdsm latex freak.

Rebrand it as GNU imp, put some wings on mascot, presto. Problem, solved.

You are writing this from your english centric world vision. The world is big and most people dont care what's the meaning or if it even has a meaning...

I just say it's called GIM Paint and move on.

Get over it.