Comment by shakezula | Hacker News Reader

Comment by shakezula | Hacker News Reader

Years ago, I got a speeding ticket. I worked nights at the time, and the office to make the payment at had very strange hours because it was from a tiny town. My schedule made it difficult to make it over to the office during open hours, and one of the times I tried it was closed randomly over lunch because again, small town. (I learned later there was only one person who ran the whole office.)

A day after my speeding ticket payment was due, I was pulled over, arrested for driving on a suspended license (quite roughly, I might add), and hauled to jail, where they booked me, processed me, and charged me thousands upon thousands of dollars for the privilege of being arrested. The whole process was structured around profit.

It absolutely demolished my meager savings account at the time, and damn near kept me from being able to attend the code bootcamp I was enrolled in. It taught me a serious lesson about the law: They exist only for power and profit. The entire experience cost me over $3000 for a speeding ticket of 5 mph over the stated limit. I've got a nice little arrest mention on my criminal record now, though, so that's nice.

> It taught me a serious lesson about the law: They exist only for power and profit.

I understand your frustration, but the law does not exist ONLY (or at all, if I'm being honest) for power and profit. The law exists to provide each person with a baseline to guide their interactions, whether it be between them and other individuals, or between them and their government.

Now, obviously you have abuses and especially when some in the government/beaurocracy find out they can get funds by abusing their authority (e.g. civil asset forfeiture), but that's not why the law exists, and it doesn't happen everywhere. That's just a symptom of a lack of oversight by we, the people (chiefly).

Also a clear lack of empathy. I mean, sure, the person did something wrong. But have they stopped being human? Where is the humanity in squeezing every penny out of someone already broken and poor ($250/day is more than what many Americans earn in a day). Then taking away 50% of any hope/real shot at living they have. This sounds like profiteering at their expense. (Edit: this is evil).

Jail time and a permanent record is more punishment than it sounds. It severely affects future employment, even things like renting an apartment or getting a car loan (the ubiquitous background checks are done to weed such people out).

I agree that what happened to him should not have happened. But we're the ones who let this stuff happen. We're the ones who vote in the people (or neglect to vote them out) who put these policies in place.

"Vote harder! The criminals who steal from you aren't to blame - you, the victim, are!"

> That's just a symptom of a lack of oversight by we, the people (chiefly).

So your argument is that it is not the fault of the people who are paid to do this job, out of our tax money, but it is somehow our fault, even though your average person has literally no input whatsoever into any of this?

That's just false.

I mean, almost 90% of Americans live in a non-swing state where their vote is entirely meaningless.

>I understand your frustration, but the law does not exist ONLY (or at all, if I'm being honest) for power and profit.

Sigh, another kid who has not faced life.

You cannot pay your tickets by wiring the money?

Your bank app doesn't have shortcuts to pay fines and taxes?

Is that a thing… anywhere?

ASB in New Zealand offer it. They have a list you can search for various things and companies, your comment prompted me to check.

Fines, taxes and some big companies appear there.

I was told in the 1980s that personal finances in Australia were such.. that many independent adults did not own their own autos, but that ownership and insurance were arranged through their employer, typically a large company or government agency.

That sounds quite good. There is very little about car ownership that I like - the convenience is hard to beat though.

This was an old tax loophole - employees would request a leased vehicle from the employer in lieu of actual cash wages, lowering their taxable income.

It hasn't been a loophole for years (fringe benefits tax took care of that), but many older people still do it anyway.

Yes, in NZ :)

You can also pay them by credit or debit card online, but there is a small processing fee for doing so.

mostly everywhere except the us from the looks of it

Yep :) it's a thing in South Africa, been able to it for more than a decade. Before that I could just go to any post office and pay the fine there.

Not taxes though. My tax is automatically deducted from my salary and paid by my employer every month. All employers do this.

They do in NZ as well, but there are times when you need to pay additional taxes for some reason. E.g.earn extra income that isn't through an employer you need to declare and pay taxes on.

I guess it's for those cases you use the Pay Taxes option in my banks app. I've used it a few times and it's really useful

Yes, in Brazil as well, for a long time now. Since bank apps started to exist actually.

Same in Azerbaijan, everything can be paid through banking apps. Electricity, gas, internet, mobile, fines, taxes, gov, services, couriers and so on...

You can pay many Japanese taxes through PayPay, LINEPay and several other apps.

Yes, also police has NFC-enabled terminals, so you can deal with it on the spot. Poland.

I think it's only not a thing in the US.

Even many third world countries offer that...

Absolutely it is

I'm more surprised this is a question in 2022

Our government may be a bit corrupt, but at surprisingly competent when it comes to taking money online via banking apps.

I got jailed for a DUI in the USA and I was not allowed to use debit or credit card for bail... I had to have cash... but of course the bail company was able to electronically transfer the money.

The Government want you to use cash only when it's convenient for them....

No? As far as I know that is not a thing in the US. Sometimes you can pay by credit card, but that's a more recent thing.

I have always been able to pay online, over the phone or via mail for my tickets with check, cash, card, or money order. This is in two states: California and North Carolina. For anything more serious than a speeding ticket in NC is a mandatory court visit depending on severity, California has a few more things you can just pay a fine than NC afaik.

How is that possibly the issue here?

I really value being in country where default payment method in almost any situation is simple bank transfer.

Our most recent two tickets were from speed cameras. In both cases we sent in checks.

That is frustrating, but when were you planning to pay? Couldn’t you have mailed it in?

Suspended license driving is anti-social. Any law with a firm cutoff or deadline, and no gradual increase of penalty, sucks for those who barely miss complying with it. There needs to be some kind of consequence, though.

Surely the antisocial thing is suspending someone's licence without telling them about it and over a 5mph speeding ticket...?

I'd argue that the humiliation of arresting and imprisoning someone for a single speeding ticket is the only anti-social occurrence here.

>There needs to be some kind of consequence, though.

No, there just need to be better laws - or at least, more fit to the "crime" response.

In fact, if he was indeed "5 mph above the speed limit" he shouldn't even have been fined in the first place.

Police can and should use discretion (and they often/mostly do, this was just a shitty move in a shitty district).

Not to mention that, even given the fine was ok, there should have been an online/bank transfer way to pay...

Separate issues. I said enough in my post to indicate that I am sympathetic regarding the overall situation.

Sorry but isn't the purpose of such licensing requirements to ensure that the roads are safe?

If so, why would him having a debt to the state matter? Clearly him mailing the cash or not wouldn't change his risk profile for driving.

The anti-social thing here is to leverage what is ostensibly a safety concern into a tool of compliance.

Yes. Like the other responses, you’re only seeing the original ticket when replying to a comment about driving on a suspended license.

As I alluded to, a gradual system of consequences building to suspension, or some other method of easing into or helping avoid the penalty state, would be more fair, especially for light offenses like the OP’s.

That does not change that we expect people not to drive on public roads when they’re barred from using them.

I hope you learned your lesson and moved the hell out of there.

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