Better than Lorem Ipsum | Hacker News Reader

Better than Lorem Ipsum

classicipsum.com

7 points_gd3l12 comments

Isn't the idea of Lorem Ipsum that it shouldn't be a real English text? That it should fill the space without distracting with real meaning?

Yes, that's exactly what Lorem Ipsum is intended for.

While I can imagine there being some usecases in which you'd want to actually test the readability of some design and maybe provide some text that a user can actually read, in most cases you don't and you use Lorem Ipsum to keep the client from reading the text.

One thing you definitely don't want to do, during the design phase, is putting text there that is almost but not quite a finished version of what is actually going to be there. Because that way you guarantee that the client will be reading the text and (even involuntarily) come up with all sorts of things that are slightly wrong about the text and could be improved, which is all very useful (maybe), but not if you're looking for feedback on the design, which is when you use Lorem Ipsum filler.

That said, there may be a few use cases where this "meaningful but unrelated" filler is appropriate, but it's most definitely not "better" than Lorem Ipsum. Nor is "Lorem Ipsum is lame" a valid criticism in these use cases.

You are coming from the stance that content, i.e. words, is separate from the design around it. I'm saying this is bullshit and that words/content are the most important parts of the design.

Using a fake language and text that you don't read takes away from that. Even using my classicipsum.com generator kind of takes away from that; but it takes away from it on a smaller level. I try to use the actual content and copy for a site, but that's not always possible (like I said, for example, when I'm making a WordPress theme). Hence classicipsum.com

Content is not there to just "fill space". Content is the reason people are coming to a website. Long written content, like blogs, is important to keep in mind when designing for some projects.

For me, I often design WordPress themes, which relates to blogging. Using real content like this is better than just having fake text that isn't even in the language a client will be using.

Ideally I wouldn't use filler text at all, but using at least actual English words prevents me from viewing the content as just something to "fill the space".

> Content is not there to just "fill space".

Not what I said. Filler text is there to fill space when you don't have the proper text - it's useless, it doesn't have meaning, it's likely to change in the next 5 minutes. Real content is there to be on the final version.

I answered another comment and feel like it addresses your comment, as well. Check it out: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3259963

Clients natural inclination will be to read the dummy text. Lorem ipsum is unreadable, that's what makes Lorem Ipsum great.

Users' natural inclination is to read a site's content, as well. Why not design with that same behavior in mind?

What you're saying is that a site's design purpose is to get people to read content; so build the site using unreadable text so that you don't have to be aware of that purpose...I disagree, and made this little site for me and anyone else who wants more than pseudo-Latin nonsense that objectifies content.

I understand your rationale, and it's a great tool you've built. But I don't see how you can say that your text 'objectifies content'. You seem to be confusing readability and legibility. Lorem Ipsum is unreadable in so much as it has no meaning. However it's perfectly good at communicating legibility. Adding abstract and unrelated meaning to dummy text does not objectify the content or add any value. IMO it does the opposite as it adds an unnecessary distraction and creates an association with what is probably an unrelated subject.

I feel that adding abstract meaning to content does objectify the content (in our case, using Lorem Ipsum). I speak English and work with English speakers. The text from classicipsum is only a better option than Lorem Ipsum, it is not ideal; but for us English speakers, the actual English content, in my opinion, catches the eye more realistically. Even the way English is structured, with commas, clauses, punctuation, etc., is captured better in actual English than in a pseudolatin language.

To me it just seems that if you're designing a site for predominantly English visitors, you wouldn't use Polish or Spanish or German text in the design. Yet we use gibberish Lorem Ipsum because well, hey, that's what that other designers do. It just seems wonky to me...

On the other hand, I am working with people in the Netherlands right now. For the Dutch version of their site, I used Dutch content.

It just makes more sense to me. Every language has its own quirks and using real content, especially from literature, captures form and matches reality more than a fake language.

"Yet we use gibberish Lorem Ipsum because well, hey, that's what that other designers do"

I explained why I use Lorem Ipsum, and that clearly was not the reason.

I appreciate the detailed responses, but don't misconstrue my argument.

That statement was not in reference to you; I'm referring to the fact that Lorem Ipsum is just a popular thing to do. Many people don't think about it like you are and simply do it because the design crowd at large does it.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com