France is paying car drivers nearly $4k to switch to an electric bike | Hacker News Reader

France is paying car drivers nearly $4k to switch to an electric bike

electrek.co

82 pointsdoener51 comments

It's not, it's covering a fixed percentage of the cost of the electric bike or electric car you're willing to buy up to a certain amount and if you match certain geographic and socioeconomic conditions. Provided you do the administive paperwork withing a close time window of getting the certificate of old car destruction.

What is the percentage? Couldn't find it.

There was a comment in the last thread on this (a few days ago?) that said 60% but uncited.

It seems to be 40% [0]

"Montant maximal de la prime à la conversion pour l’achat ou la location d’un VAE conditionnée à la mise à la casse d’un ancien véhicule essence ou diesel « polluant » est égal à 40 % du coût d’acquisition"

I also see this here [1] on a government site

"Le montant de l'aide de l'État est fixé à 40 % du coût d'acquisition"

But.. I'm unsure. As the GP said, there are multiple conditions. It's not a check for 4k euros.

[0] https://www.blog-nouvelles-technologies.fr/238380/jusqua-400...

[1] https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F36601/...

I hate these methods of grants. I only get $500 for a bike but if I want an electric car suddenly the government hands me $4000? So stupid. $500 buys you half of an entry level e bike. $4000 buys you four of them. If they want to actually make a dent in emissions, just give everyone the $4000.

It's certainly more complicated but I think it's better overall. I bought myself an Ebike without a grant as a substitute for my gas car for runs around the neighborhood. Because of the high gas prices in the US it's possible that i've paid off a significant amount of that bike just in the last four months.

I started just using in for just errands that are maybe less than 3-5 miles around my house but I sat down the other day and realized that I've only used my car once in the last two months. I imagine though in the winter my car usage will increase (seattle so rain, gloom, early sunsets, etc.)

No because a single person buying four eBikes doesn’t reduce emissions 4x as much as a single person buying one eBike?

A decent, reliable, eBike will cost around $4000. The cheap ones are very poor value as they are prone to mechanical failure and not very powerful.

My Rad Power Bike seems very decent for 2k. It's heavy as all hell etc. But for your average user it looks like a nice price/quality tradeoff. Regarding power, my understanding is that in many place that is regulated. My Rad is 750w and has pedal assist. 750w seems a little underpowered in hilly seattle but I could also afford to lose more than a few pounds so hopefully down the line it will be perfectly fine (It can get me up all but the steepest grades).

Just a quibble: the only available $1000 ebikes are cheap junk. In the US, Rad Power are the cheapest decent ebikes and you're looking at 1500-2000 for them.

Indeed. A shitload simpler just to drop the VAT on E-bikes to zero for the first $1000 of value. But that wouldn't "create jobs" -- in the bureaucracy.

I read this in Korvo’s voice. You win the internet!

Your post adds no value to the discussion, this is NOT reddit.

I'm more peeved about the regulation preventing higher power faster ebikes from being used. 25 kph pedelec with 250W engine. Yeah, except I can go faster than that on a standard bike. (But ebike is somewhat heavier.)

Mostly because that's almost indistinguishable from an electric scooter, just slower.

Speaking of electric bikes, does anyone have any good recommendation for somebody looking to get started in biking in general for commuting purposes? I'm not a historical biker and not looking to replace the ~20 mile radius I drive with this, but ~3-5 mile radius including smaller grocery trips and going out for dinner/meeting friends/office trips is what I am looking for. If I commit to this happy to upgrade over time, so not looking to go all out now.

I'd also want to know how to deal with the worry about someone stealing it while you're in a store or restaurant. I was nervous enough about my regular bike, but an expensive e-bike worries me too much.

When my bike was stolen it was in an underground parking garage. The thief was able to go to a known place with a dozen bikes and not any solid foot traffic and take everything.

Outside a store or restaurant during business hours, however, is a much more risky proposition for a thief from all the foot traffic. They’d rather pursue low hanging fruit like apartment parking garages where their efforts will probably guarantee them a half dozen bikes in one go.

You should also always insure your bike. My renters insurance covers mine for theft with zero deductible.

My renters insurance (Lemonade) "covers 'pedal-assist' bikes, and only models that do not have a throttle option." Subtle point that might catch people out.

Get a U Lock and the cable attachment and lock up to secure posts.

Don't live in California?

I ride bikes a lot. The only way to not have your bike stolen is to bring it in the shops with you, and store it in areas the public cannot see or access it (basically, in your house). It will get stolen if locked up outside, even if there are many people around. It will get stolen from your private parking garage with security guards, and it will get stolen from your second floor balcony.

I also ride a bike a lot in Portland, OR and have never had a bike stolen. Bike theft is not inevitable and there’s a lot you can do to minimize your risk.

Park it near other bikes. Lock it up properly with a good U-Lock (yes, these can be defeated but thieves are more likely to be opportunistic drug addicts than dorky guys with YouTube channels). Add a chain lock around the other tire if you’re super nervous. Don’t leave your bike outside overnight (locked up or not). Bring your bike into your home/apartment - even if your building has a bike room or bike parking area. Add your bike to your renter/homeowners insurance - this is not expensive and adds some peace of mind.

Yes, your bike might get stolen, but a lot of things might happen.

If you live on the North American continent, you can register your bike at Project 529, which can help in retrieving a stolen bike or ensure you don't buy a stolen one.

https://project529.com/garage

Video on the same topic: There's a proven way to stop bike theft. So why are so few cities doing it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48V9Xtpgq9I

I don’t even have to watch the video to tell you the answer when it comes to American cities: American cities don’t care about bikes. Many American cities (and American governments, at the local, state, and federal level) don’t care about much of anything, to be honest.

There’s a proven way to avoid putting innocent people to death by lethal injection (death penalty). There’s a proven way to eliminate the terror of medical bankruptcy. Why aren’t these things being done in America?

In this 10-minute video a bike messenger demos several really useful points abou theft-prevention. (And what he's still nervous about.)

Edit: URL (sheesh) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZkJP9D6fms

Get a fat chain lock and a motorcycle disc lock/alarm. Don't park it somewhere remote.

If I recall correctly quite a few ebikes fold down into something the size of a briefcase. Bring it with you.

That's absolutely a defining feature of the ones that do, and it has significant tradeoffs in cost, robustness, battery life & power, etc. Doesn't make it a bad choice necessarily but it's not really like a nice extra. It's something you decide up front that then drastically changes your buying options.

I use multiple locks when I have to leave mine outside for an extended period. Like 2 U-locks, a cable and possibly a padlock. An angle grinder will still go through all that, but I'm hoping a thief would just pick an easier target.

If bike theft is that much of a problem, might as well remove the front wheel and take it with you. (And/or the battery.) The seat too.

Ulock or chain the rest.

I have Hexlox on all the components, and both wheels will usually get a U-lock or cable securing them.

It depends on the city and neighbourhood. Some places you'll be fine with cheap u-lock. Others are suffer professional criminals, and you should get a Brompton you can hide under a dinner table, or in the coat-check. In the middle, a good u-lock combined with a cable is fine for daylight hours.

I purchased one of these back at the beginning of spring (https://www.radpowerbikes.com/collections/electric-folding-b...). I got a folding one simply because I keep it inside my apt and folded it fits into the big closet that my in-unit washer/dryer is in. That said if you are particularly tall you'd probably want to get a non-folding model as they have larger wheels and can accommodate taller people more comfortably.

I ride it a ton 1-3 miles, 100% grocery runs and similar 'around town errands'. A few trips further (12 miles round trip) on a dedicated bike/ped cross city trail (the burke-gillman in seattle). I'm still nervous on non-protected bike lanes/city streets. My commute too, if I ever go back to the office, is too long for this bike and the weight of it means I'm right at the edge of what the seattle metro bus bike rack weight limit is so no, first and last mile biking for my commute either.

That said it's a great little 'cargo-ish' neighborhood runner, I picked it mostly because there is a showroom in my neighborhood and talking to people who had them they seemed to like it. They have a similar step-through design that does not fold that I considered.

On the theft side, it's a concern, seattle like many cities has a problem with bicycle theft but so far my use-case means that i'm never far from the bike when it's locked up.

I definitely considered Rad, and may still eventually get one. I ended up going with a Lectric XP 2.0 (https://lectricebikes.com/collections/ebikes/products/xp-ste...) and I've been pleased with it. A bit of lag with the pedal assist kicking in, and there's an awful vibration noise that happens at times, but for the price I've been enjoying the hell out of it. I've put about 140 miles on it in the past month and a half

I can't tell if you're specifically asking for e-bike recs here or not. But unless there's a health or mobility limitation, or your area has absolutely massive hills, 3-5 miles is not a range where you'll get a lot of the benefits of electric bikes.

Everything you mentioned can be comfortably and easily done on like, a $300 single speed with a front basket. IMO just start there and see how well it meets your needs. Even if it fits them terribly, using it for a few months will give you a very clear idea of what you actually do need from a bike.

I echo this sentiment--you don't need an electric bike for what you describe. I would suggest, however, not starting with a $300 single-speed. Get a city bike with an internally-geared hub, maybe eight speeds. Take your time getting used to it. Around where I live, it took me a couple weeks to get comfortable.

Look at Ride1Up e-bikes as well.

Rad Power Bikes are having a sale right now until Aug 29, https://www.radpowerbikes.com/collections/ebike-deals. They're generally considered a very solid entry level ebike.

Of the ones on sale, you'll probably want either the RadRunner or the RadCity for the casual style, a good frame for cargo, and a huge rider height range so your friends and family can easily share it.

I recently bought an escooter to get around easily in the suburbs where I live. One concern I have is theft. It seems that no lock can withstand 30-60 seconds of lockpicking/brute-forcing.

Does anyone have suggestions on how to mitigate this risk?

Zero SR/S

It's heavy enough to stop the casual theft

How is a motorcycle gonna stop people from stealing my ebike?

Um, just buy the electric motorcycle for 8x the cost of your ebike?

Grand Theft Auto (the legal construct, not the game) [1].

"In many states, grand theft auto laws apply not only to the theft of cars but also to the theft of boats, campers, motorcycles, and other vehicles."

IMHO, if this applied to bikes as well, it would add a LOT of deterrent for bike/e-bike theft.

[1] https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federa...

I've looked into this a while ago and my conclusion was that a good u-lock (Abus, Kryptonite) should be very hard to pick to someone who isn't the lockpicking lawyer , is hard to brute force and is portable. A thick chain might be better but is too heavy to take on a bicycle. Anything else is too easily bruteforced. Always lock your bike to something or they can just walk away with it. If you're really paranoid you can take two u-locks from different brands and leave a chain at your work and home. At that point the weak link will probably be the thing you're locking your bike to.

Maybe put a "GPS Tracking" sticker on it to deter thieves and maybe try to hide an AirTag somewhere as well so you can try to recover it?

If they're determined enough, have the tool and time you can't do anything.

pick as many as you can:

- get a very good chain

- chain your escooter to something that can't be moved, or get a ground anchor if possible

- use an alarm brake disk lock

- use a motorcycle cover with a wired alarm

- park in a safe spot

- never leave your scooter in the exact same spot for days/weeks

- get a proper insurance

I personally had one of these, I expect the size alone is a good deterrent: https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/accessories/locks/kryptoni...

> It seems that no lock can withstand 30-60 seconds of lockpicking/brute-forcing

Unless you're a lockpicking expert or have access to emergency services grade power tools this is wrong.

This is the "small" version of what I used: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI9SEThrJMY

You need 30s for one cut, but you need two cuts to get the chain free, so that would be 1 minute if you brought your angle grinder, a source of electricity, and some kind of heavy duty vise to keep the chain in position while you cut it

Most theft are crimes of opportunity, I wouldn't worry too much about an escooter if it looks like it would be a pain in the ass to steal. If you had a $20k italian supersport bike parked in a regular street of a crime ridden city I'd start worrying (and look for a private garage)

Well there is theory and practice.

Those helps and incentives are modulated by revenue of the house.

The conditions of revenue to fully reach the maximum amount of helps is ridiculously very drastic. So basically every house with decent income enough to sustain without luxury, a city life will be out of income range allowing such helps.

For instance my parents are both retired with a decent retirement wage. They bought for around 7000 euros of ebike, as they are getting old and living in the country side (high powered, high capacity battery) they got 0 euros of any kind of helps.

I myself have a family of five being the only one to work, in IT field with a decent income (around 60k/year), I’m out of range for any kind of incentive and state help on this topic.

So this helps isn’t for everyone. It is for very low income house, which indeed are unable to invest in a good ebike, where most of the catalog has an average price of 2000thousand euros.

So State money isn’t at danger, the targeted ebike is very poor quality entry model you can find in basic supermarket selling Chinese low end product, for less then a few hundred of euros. Cause those houses aren’t able to afford >2000euros ebike for whole family.

Discussion yesterday here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32562475

But not paying car drivers that want to switch to a regular bike... (ie. non electric)

The article mentions regular (pedal) bikes are included.

"Pedal bicycles are also included in the generous incentive package, though e-bikes are contributing to one of the biggest jumps in cycling ever across Europe and much of the world."

Fun fact, ebikes are actually MORE energy efficient than regular bikes, when you compare total calories expended on non assisted bikes to electricity + calories expended on ebikes.

Additionally, there's some evidence that ebike riders actually get MORE exercise on average than regular bike riders, because they ride much more regularly around the city for basic errands.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com