Hacker News Reader

Comment by hn_throwaway_69 | Hacker News Reader

>No.

Assume for sake of argument that it were possible to develop an encryption regime which protected bona fide users, but did not protect criminals. That would be a good thing.

As a matter of public policy, criminals shouldn't be given the right to communicate for the sake of furthering criminal activity without the possibility of lawful interception. It's here that some technologists lose sight of the real world. In the real world, society expects that authorities be able to fight crime using proportionate means.

The real issue is that you can't separate the two from each other - weakening encryption for criminals means weakening it for everyone.

View on HN

You sure you want to deprive anybody who has ever been allocated the tag "criminal" the right to private communications? You might want to think long and hard about the members of that class, and what fate they are subject to when they are laid bound at the feet of their prosecutors in the state, who were also the party responsible for defining who they are, sometimes for no offense more complex or voluntary than being born.

And then if that still doesn't dissuade you, you want to think again even from a position of pure self interest, because you are very likely technically a criminal yourself. (https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp...)

Be very, very careful about handing power to the state, there's a reason they're the largest cause of non natural death in the past century, and it's not their innate benevolence.

> Assume for sake of argument that it were possible to develop an encryption regime which protected bona fide users, but did not protect criminals. That would be a good thing. [...] The real issue is that you can't separate the two from each other - weakening encryption for criminals means weakening it for everyone.

Even if such a hypothetical encryption scheme was not intrinsically weaker, it still requires two very strong assumptions:

    1. Not a single individual with legal access to the interception system will ever abuse it for their own purposes, or in exchange for a significant bribe or under the threat of blackmail from a powerful and wealthy malignant actor.

    2. A future government (democratically elected or not) will never decide that currently legal behaviour is now a crime which warrants interception—say possession of drugs for personal use, "deviant" sex, unpatriotic discourse, etc.

Here's the thing - both of those issues you've identified are broader societal issues that concern everyone, not just you.

(2) in particular is suggesting, effectively, that you should be allowed to circumvent a law you disagree with. In other words, you should be allowed to communicate unlawfully if you don't agree the communication should be unlawful.

That's just not how it works. As a society, your view is one of many. I'm sure many people involved in illicit activity disagree in their activity being characterised as criminal.

(1) undermines the fabric of institutions and assumes that law enforcement targeting criminals may do so for collateral purposes, so they shouldn't be allowed to target criminals just in case.

I don't agree with either.

Whatever society decides is not necessarily good; it's your moral right to break laws you thjnk are sufficiently unjust. When germany goes fascist again, you can bet I'll be using encryption.

If you want people to respect the rule of law, you have to offer them a compromise.

You can break whatever law you choose, but there may be consequences for doing so. It's no answer to breaking a law to say that you don't agree with the law.

There is a possibility of lawful interception at the endpoints of the end-to-end encryption. Does it mean the problem is solved?

Exellent idea. We make a socialscore-system and just people above a certain score can buy stuff with working encrytion.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com