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That is completely untrue. His party has won all elections by landslide since he was removed in this regime change. [https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/22/asia/pakistan-imran-khan-anti...]

The elections you refer to had PTI winning 46% of the vote, while PMLN won 39% of the vote. This is far too small a difference to be characterized as a landslide, even if this difference resulted in a 15-5 seat split, given that the winning party has less than 50% of the votes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Punjab_provincial_by-elec...

>>> who was extremely unpopular with both the army and the public

Bro, if you want to lie, at least lie at something which can’t be countered by other sources.

Among all the leaders atm, khan is the most popular one. Ever since he was ousted, he has been calling rallies and people are coming out for him. He has pulled biggest crowd in pakistan history. All can be seen on YouTube.

I can’t even read rest of your comment given that I already know that either you are very disconnected from reality or you have some other motive to discredit khan.

> He has pulled biggest crowd in pakistan history. All can be seen on YouTube.

This is the same flawed argument that US Republicans use on why Trump couldn't have gotten 46.9% of the 2020 popular vote, but he did, and is thus, unpopular.

> Khan, who was extremely unpopular with both the army and the public,

If everybody hates him, then censoring him is pointless. I don't know anything about any of these people or parties but what you're saying doesn't pass my sniff test.

Censoring him was dumb (this isn't the first time the succeeding govt censored him). They've really made a hash of it and allowed him to become a martyr.

He was unpopular. Here's a poll from when the no-confidence vote passed (Bloomberg referencing Gallup Pakistan polling).

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-13/majority-...

That being said, the only thing that matters isn't just overall support. The groups supporting also matter. And even though Khan had minority support, he has support among the extreme religious right of Pakistan, who are organized enough to shut down the country and motivated enough that they would do that even if it costs damage and lives.

The poll you cite doesn't support your earlier claim that he was "extremely unpopular". He may not have had over 50% of the public's support, but his support was near that level. By your own reference, 43% were upset at his removal.

57 > 43.

And this is talking about removing an incumbent. Incumbents almost alway have a political edge. No one wants to throw out an incumbent until things are really bad.

That’s a -14 rating.

> 57 > 43.

Acknowledged in my original comment.

A -14 difference does not make him "extremely unpopular". Merely less than a majority. A 43% rating is higher than Biden has, but no one would say he is "extremely unpopular".

And then there's the fact that it's a -14 difference between his party and everyone else. Given that "everyone else" includes two other major parties, it's pretty much a given that his party has more support than any other party. In comparison:

- In the last Canadian elections, no party got over 34%. In the last 20 years, no party even got 40%.

- In the last UK elections, Boris Johnson got just over 43%. And only once in the last 20 years did someone get more than that.

If IK's party really had 44% of the public's support, they will likely win any election.

he is massively popular, which is the reason the govt isnt going towards elections. This WSJ articles sums it up pretty well: https://www.wsj.com/articles/ousted-pakistan-prime-minister-...

are you a dog ;)

I know this kind of reply may trigger a harsh response from HN mods, but this really needs to be said.

You are lying through your teeth.

The plain facts, in no particular order:

1. Imran Khan's party had much larger support in 2013 elections, and that support was suppressed via election rigging. Its impossible to really say wether he would won an outright majority then (probably not), but who knows

2. In 2018, there was massive rigging to ensure that Imran Khan would NOT win an outright parliamentary majority. This was admitted to, PLAIN AS DAY, by one of the crooks who is currently "defence minister" (what a joke). He openly and plainly admitted that he was losing during the count in his constiuency, he picked up the phone and complained to the army chief, and lo and behold - the remaining count miracoulusly went in his favour.

Multiple other examples like this. THE ONLY REASON that the previous opposition were complaining about rigging is because, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY, they were handicapped in rigging in their own favour,in their own localities.

3. Imran Khan was extremely unpopular with the public?

Complete hogwash. BEFORE HE EVEN MENTIONED THE US INVOLVEMENT, he held a number of political rallies, in the last week of his premiership. One such rally resulted in A MILLION PEOPLE coming to Islamabad.

A MILLION NEW CELL PHONE NUMBERS were registered in the Islamabad area by telco's during that weekend

So there goes your entire narrative that you were trying to falsely push.

Interesting that you would claim I’m lying while I provide links to prove by numbers while you don’t.

The best you have is 2013 numbers to make claims about a 2020+ situation. I don’t think I need to say anything else to prove your lies.

What a joke. What reasonable person would point to 2013 numbers to justify their claims about a 2022 election.

It's a vicarious sort of fun to come across a political debate in which I'm a complete outsider with no prior knowledge, no position, and no bias.

It's like watching a loud public domestic argument between people you've never seen before and never will again.

I'm not sure who you are, and what you're responding to. Perhaps you replied to the wrong comment?

My post was in reply to the outright lies pushed by asdajksah2123.

But in response to this "gem" of yours later in this thread, to whit:

> The most hilarious thing is that a conspiracy theory that Imran Khan created days before he was ousted with absolutely no evidence at all is supposed to be given any value because he lost a no confidence vote.

The evidence is actualy pretty damning. I'm just going to give a basic cliff notes version:

- the US tried to make a back door deal with the Pak military to give them bases in Pak, post-Afghan withdrawal. In addition to the usual fluff pieces in the NYT pushing this agenda, there was recorded testimony to Congress acknowledging this (all in 2021).

- Imran Khan squashed all of this. Since that point, the US had essentially decided to push for a coup in Pakistan. And this coincided nicely with the personal objectives of the other 2 power centers - namely the military high command, and the other 2 main political parties/crime families. Now you had a collusion of interests between scoundrels.

Since then:

- there were numerous meetings between US officials, and various low-level parliamentarians. All of whom are so low-level that no foreign dignatory has any business meeting with them. Much less having weekend getaways with them in Bhawalpur farmhouses (YES - we have the nitty gritty details)

- tens of millions of US$ was moved to Karachi, from the US to Zardari's crime family, and used to BUY the votes of multiple MPs. These are the very same MP's who then defected. Those defections were then used by the military to push those junior coalition partners in Imran Khan's government to jump ship (I explained in an earlier comment how the military deliberately interfered in the 2018 elections to prevent Imran Khan from getting an outright majority then - THIS is why!)

- THAT was the reason why a MILLION people came to Islamabad to protest - BEFORE Imran Khan even mentioned ANYTHING about the US involvement. The bribery was open and rather disgusting.

- the diplomatic cable mentioned by many IS real. It DOES exist. Otherwise - answer this - why would the military lodge an Official Secrets Act case and threaten THE THEN prime minister with arrest if he publically disclosed the contents?

Mr. Addicted: you're pushing a narrative that has been completely exposed within Pakistan as a pack of outright lies. Its all been exposed and reported upon - in front of 220 MILLION people. The only reason you get to pretend otherwise to a non-Pakistani audience is because nearly all of this investigative reporting was/is in Urdu.

And the cherry on top is now this:

now - even WITH massive anti-Imran vote rigging and himself removed in a coup d'etat, his party has wiped the floor with the opposition in various by-elections - in areas considered absolute strongholds of that opposition.

In a free and fair election - its quite possible that Imran Khan could win 80% of the seats. EIGHTY PERCENT!

Stick that in your pipe, and smoke it!

Then why don’t you post some links here for us Urdu speakers on HN. We do exist you know.

Quite literally hundreds of pieces of investigative journalism, done by some of the most respected true jounalists in Pakistan, each of whom have followings/viewership numbering in the MILLIONS.

Spread across various platforms, from cable news stations (ARY, Bol TV) which broadcast to multiple continents, to youtube podcasts which get million plus views for 2 to 3 news videos, per day, every day.

And you're pretending that you're unaware of any of this? If you are an Urdu speaker as you claim, there's no point asking what rock have you been hiding under. There's no rock big enough to explain such indifferent self-imposed ignorance.

Not all of us live in Pakistan. I don’t have a TV at home so have to go to my cousin’s house few miles away who gets ARY on satellite. Only just today did I hear about the Secrets Act case from some people at school who had just come from Pak. My cousin did say some stuff about US conspiracy but he and his dad always say that.

Well Selim, assuming you're not trolling, then I would suggest that you look for the youtube channels of established respected journalists, to get a flavour of whats happening currently.

There is no chance of speaking truth on the official airwaves - the other channels threw their lot in with the coup from day 1 (that includes Geo TV, Hamid Mir, etc). Those channels that attempted to have been forcibly shutdown (eg: ARY, and now Bol)

I'll drop just a few recommendations;

- Imran Riaz Khan (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaszgR2TH3qNw_CxLHAd2SQ)

- Waqar Malik (UK based freelancer, but very dedicated) (https://www.youtube.com/c/WaqarMaliks)

- Haidar Mehdi (ex army officer, now based in Canada, still with links to many current serving high-ranking generals) (https://www.youtube.com/user/shrmehdi)

You will find that people like Imran Riaz Khan (who was imprisoned just a few weeks ago) still have to be careful about what they say (hence repeated allusions to "powerful behind the scenes forces"), but Haider Mehdi and Waqar Malik, by dint of the fact that they are free from kidnapping and torture, have been quite open about calling a spade, a spade.

When it comes to mainstream reporting, then Arshad Sharif and Sami Ibrahim have been quite couragous and steadfast. Both have been targetted by this coup-regime. Sami was actually attacked outside the Bol TV offices (he is the president of the news division). While Arshad has just recently had to go into exile (even though he is from a respected military family, and his brother died while on military duty - combating terrorists).

I would suggest going through some of Haider Mehdi's vlogs from a few months ago to understand how we got here. He has only done a few (Waqar has so many that you wouldn't know where to start)

Thank you.

>BEFORE HE EVEN MENTIONED THE US INVOLVEMENT, he held a number of political rallies, in the last week of his premiership. One such rally resulted in A MILLION PEOPLE coming to Islamabad.

It just means his base is rabid, not exactly that he's popular.

I don't think you quite understand what the term "popular" actually means.

"Rabid", in the context that you're using it, applies really well to those who keep trying to push a consistent narrative of:

- nothing to see here, move on

- just a few agitated locals, who can't count past 10

- the generals are really good chaps at heart

- don't mind the fact that they are kidnapping politicians & journalists in broad daylight, and subjecting them to CIA-inspired Abu Ghraib style torture

- none of the above in any way confirms that this "deep state" has lost control, and is continuously escalating as it gets continuously desperate

Yes, "rabid" does cover that.

On the other hand, attracting millions to your rallies, winning by-elections in a landslide DESPITE intensive vote-rigging against you, breaking all sorts of viewership records across all platforms (including tagspaces and twitter trends) ...

yes, the term "popular" DOES cover that.

This is at least partly true. Pakistan is mostly ruled by the military so keeping them happy is important. That's the actual power centre there.

Prime Ministers of Pakistan don't usually manage to serve out their term https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_Pak...

This information is true